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Ok, my fellow shipmates... listen to this... as I was browsing the R/Lu forums they mentioned that the good shippers' only hope was the kiss on the cheek thing (which I thought was more "good luck" than anything else) which leads me to this: Did you notice that the 4th book seemed more of a R/Hr book, but then there was the H/Hr kiss (friendly or not). In this book it seemed to be leaning more towards H/Hr but then there was the R/Hr kiss (friendly or not). Ok, maybe I'm digging to deep here, but it seems to me that J.K. is possibly doing this to contradict what's going on in the respective books or something along those lines. Like I said... the book that seems to lean to one side gets the opposite kiss thrown at them... if that makes sense So, I was wondering what you all thought about that. I'd like to hear what you think... if it's just me or what. Do you think she did that intentionally to throw us off, ect. and or has something else in mind?
Oh, and I think us pumpkineers need to really support and root for R/Lu... go HMS Red Moon! I think a merging is in order...

I *love* the idea of Ron and Luna. I don't really like him all that much, but I do want him to be happy.

I think that for the Harry Potter series, it should end up Harry/Hermione, Draco/Ginny (impossible as it may seem), and Ron/Luna. It's perfect. Ron and Luna seem to understand each other at some level, and their interactions in OotP were a pleasure to read. Ron is my least favorite out of the Trio, but I do want him to be happy.

Does anybody have any ideas on the whole cheek-kissing thing I had mentioned, though? I'd like to see what you guys think.

Hmmmm vey interestin cheek kissing thing there.
I've thought about it and it seems you're right! I think JKR might be trying to 'throw us off the scent', but I still think it should be Harry/ Hermione.
They just belong together.

I see where you're going with this. I think JKR is trying to contradict herself somehow to pull us in different directions. This is exactly why I believe JKR is tricky all the time. Most of the time, I don't what to believe.

Methinks she just wants to keep building up the tension, and most likely things won't be resolved until the 7th book, and maybe not even then. *sigh* Still worship JKR for the brilliant writer she is, though, tricky and all.

hmm... I dunno if this is crazy, but maybe she's trying to show how both boys react to a kiss? We saw Harry, and now we see Ron. (who reacted) No surprise there we know he has a crush on her, but it doesn't mean anything until we see what Hermione feels.

Both kisses were given in a platonic way. I don't know if JKR was attempting to throw us off, or if she just wanted to show us how Hermione has matured enough to give a boy a kiss on the cheek, or if she wanted to show us clearly how Ron feels?

Oh I don't know what I just said, I'm just a rambling mess. I'm clueless like the rest of you!!

Edited by Mod:

this place is not a debate board. If you wish to debate H/Hr with R/Hr and H/G, then you need to go to the proper message board here at portkey.

Please follow the rules stated or you risk being banned.

Well whatevr_jk_said_r/hr then you shouldt even waste ur time on this site because we all ship h/hr so buh bye

Ugh... so rude. Honestly... you are right because she did say they "are" very platonic friends.... NOT they "always will be." That could change you know. And you could be a little nicer, us pumpkineers did nothing to you. That is why I love this ship... we do not bash other ships, and when we are bashed we stay strong! So let us continue with the whole "cheek kissing" topic. Thank you.

I'm sorry, but that's just not on.

This is a forum for H/H shippers. Of course we will happily welcome R/H shippers to debate with us, but saying things like "You ppl make me sick" is just awful. Would you really want us to come to one of your forums and go on about how *you* make *us* sick? Of course not. And we wouldn't do it. We have our opinions, you have yours. That's fine. But there's no need to come and say such rude things as that.

We ALL love Harry Potter. But posts like that really upset some people. I'm fortunately secure enough to just ignore you, but there are some people on this board who really *do* get upset by comments like that. All I'm asking is that you respect *our* feelings, as we respect *yours*.

I'd like to make it clear that I have no problem with you shipping R/H - I can see the case for it myself and why such a lot of people ship it. That's absolutely fine. What I *do* have a problem with is people coming here just to 'troll' us. Sadly, you seem to have a real problem with our ship. Why? What did we ever do to you?

People who make snarky jibes like that spoil the fandom for a lot of us. So, sadly, I feel I have no choice but to report you to the mods out of respect for my fellow shipmates. I'm sorry.

Tistytosty

Cheer up watevr_JK_said_R/H... I'm sorry we make you sick! *hands over trash can*

You might not feel any better here, seeing how this is a H/Hr site!

Aww... you feel sick? Well let me see if there's a cure. For me, it'd be Pumpkin Pie, but i'm sure that'd make you feel worse, so here's a suggestion, how about, meh, I dunno, leave and stop reading our 'sick' posts.

*sighs* I don't see why this person even came here. If they came here to convert any of us, they are sadly mistaken. We don't go to SugarQuill and start saying things like "You people make me sick." That's because most of us have more respect for ourselves, our ship, and our fellow shipmates. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself, your ship, and your shipmates so I ssuggest you leave.

Um... ok, I was a bit taken aback by watevr_JK_said_R/H's post.

::blink blink:: I hope the trash can that diam0ndgrrl gave you did the trick. If you're feeling better now, maybe you can come back and give us your opinion about the two kiss. And no need to be, erm, well... cranky. We're all nice people here.

Moving along.

QUOTE

JK Rowling said herself that Harry and Hermione have a very "Platonic relationship"

As LimpNoodle2004 have already said, and I'm just repeating this for emphasis, JK did say that H/Hr have a very platonic relationship, she never did say that they will stay that way until forever and eternity. So there's still a good chance that H/Hr's relationship will change into the "not so very platonic kind"

And I can see the point of throwing us shipper off with that two kiss. If we look at it in a non-shippy way, then there really isn't much any significant difference between the two kiss. It, more than anything, pointed out that up until book 6 or 7 is played out and concluded, any ship is still possible.

We are all on a stand still on this. No ship has gotten an upper hand over the other. It's still fair game.

QUOTE

I am a R/H til the end

As we all ARE H/Hr till the end.

Cheers.

QUOTE (watevr_JK_said_R/H @ Jul 13 2003, 10:20 PM)

You ppl make me sick JK Rowling said herself that Harry and Hermione have a very "Platonic relationship" I am a R/H til the end watevr_JK_said_R/H

platonic (pl -tonn-ik) adjective
spiritual as distinct from sexual or sensual:
platonic love.
Word Family plantonically adverb.
[after Plato, and ancient Greek philosopher who advocated ideal love]

^ - Heinemann English Dictionary

Of, relating to, or characteristic of Plato or his philosophy: Platonic dialogues; Platonic ontology.
often platonic Transcending physical desire and tending toward the purely spiritual or ideal: platonic love.
often platonic Speculative or theoretical.

^ - Dictionary.com

Your arguement is completely flawed.

Exactly...I believe that *most* R/Hr arguments are flawed, no matter what intentions they have. If it wasn't for Dictionary.com, I don't know what I would do!

Get a dictionary I never really go to the site, I have my own dictionary here for my English essays and such.

I do have a dictionary, but I left it home( I'm on vacation )*shrugs*

See? Even the dictionaries are backing us up on our arguements? Is this not the best ship in the whole shipping world? LOL.

Great job though for pointing out and informing us about the true dictionary meaning of PLATONIC.

It's almost the same as BICKER isn't it? Yet another favorite word of some of the R/Hr shippers...

I love dictionaries as I love H/Hr!

lol... I think some R/Hr shippers are so fanatical in their shipping that they start twisting things their way.

I've always thought the quiet transition from friendship to romance was sweet, anyways.

H/Hr to the death!

I think we should get this thread back on topic...

I think you are onto something LimpNoodle2004. She does like give evidence of one ship then suddenly turns around and gives stronger evidence of another ship. She seems to contradict herself a lot. Maybe that is just because she is trying to tell us that not all quotes are exactly reliable since she does sometimes contradict herself and that we should not use quotes as our only evidence and should only use books as our evidence. Or she is just telling us that books are the stronger evidence when you are weighing them against quotes.

~Cris~

I just click at
watevr_JK_said_R/H profile it's horrible.
so it's show some R/H shipper thought immature.

QUOTE (Kalie @ Jul 14 2003, 12:10 AM)

I do have a dictionary, but I left it home( I'm on vacation )*shrugs*

I hope your having fun if you're on vacation then

And back on topic - Well, JKR is always misleading. She is very clever, and careful to not give ANYTHING away.

QUOTE (Ice Phoenix @ Jul 14 2003, 10:01 AM)

I hope your having fun if you're on vacation then

Yep, except for the fact that it's steaming hot outside *fans self*

Anyway, as I've said before JKR is extremely tricky and misleading. She is very careful not give anything away and always tries to tread around the issues at hand. But, she never lies.

The trouble with this kind of arguement is that we are discussing ONE kiss, one for Harry and one for Ron. Different circumstances, Harry at the end of book 4 has had a terrifying time and is still recovering from witnessing the death of a schoolmate and being terrorised by Voldemort, therefore it can argued that Harry's kiss from Hermione was out of sympathy, encouragement and support. Ron's kiss was before a quidditch match and he was nervous, therefore I took it to mean a kiss of encouragement and support, nearly the same as Harry's kiss, but out of the two considering Harry's situation was more life/death I have to say Hermione's kiss is more 'heartily felt' at least by her. But we are still only talking of A KISS, not KISSES. Perhaps, depending on things in book 6, we may see which way the tide will turn, for myself who really expected a R/Hr thing in this book, I must say I was completely surprised it didn't show and have to also say that as I read it through, the likelihood of R/Hr happening just didn't seem to be in there. At least I couldn't see it anyhow. I've always felt that the situation was rather like this: Ron likes Hermione (though that could also be argued that he just doesn't like anyone (Krum) breaking into their tightknit group). Hermione likes Harry and Harry likes??? well at the moment no one.
I sometimes feel Hermione needs to give Harry a kick in the bum to make him wake up to the fact she's there!

I sent our darling litle R/Hr shipper a privet message, pointing out that we don't go bother them, so why must they plauge us??? I also reffered him/her to Dictionary.com to see what platonic really means. Bit of a nasty shock for them when they read it, no? And, of my own accord, out of curiosity and the need to slack when I SHOULD be working (oops... ), I looked up "bicker". Here goes:

QUOTE

bick·er    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (bkr) intr.v. bick·ered, bick·er·ing, bick·ers To engage in a petty, bad-tempered quarrel; squabble. See Synonyms at argue. To flicker; quiver: “and bicker like a flame” (Robert Browning). n. A petty quarrel; a squabble.

But what I found more interesting was the MIDDLE ENGLISH version.

QUOTE

[Middle English bikeren, to attack.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bicker·er n. Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. [Buy it] bicker \Bick"er\, n. [See Beaker.] A small wooden vessel made of staves and hoops, like a tub. [Prov. Eng.] Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. bicker \Bick"er\, v. i. [imp. & p. p. Bickered; p. pr. & vb. n. Bickering.] [OE. bikeren, perh. fr. Celtic; cf. W. bicra to fight, bicker, bicre conflict, skirmish; perh. akin to E. beak.] 1. To skirmish; to exchange blows; to fight. [Obs.] Two eagles had a conflict, and bickered together. --Holland. 2. To contend in petulant altercation; to wrangle. Petty things about which men cark and bicker. --Barrow.

I don't get the whole "small wooden vessel" thing, but what about the "attack" part of it? And we all know how fond JKR is of using Middle English words, like Dumbledore. And if my line of think is correct, isn't coming to blows serious? Thoughts?

AML
~*kt*~

And to whatevr_JKR_said_R/Hr, I'm sorry for being a bi**h, but you needed the wake up call. I'm just sorry I had to do it in that fashion.

You are completely right pnkrkprincess91, JKR does tend to use middle English words to stop people from knowing what she means immediately.

I think JKR made Hermione kiss Ron just to tease all shippers. But she certainly gave us H/Hr shippers plenty of H/Hr subtext, especially in OOTP, so I'm not complaining ...

The kisses. Ah.

Ok, there was one kiss at the end of Book 4, in the chapter 'The Beginning'. This was a kind of 'sorry you're leaving with the Dursley's again, keep in touch' kiss, while Ron's was merely a 'Great, I didn't stay because I went away with Harry' kiss.

Both are really signs of friendship I think, but they could develop into more. We'll have to wait and see.

Now... there's another thing to add to my previous idea... when Hermione kissed *** did she also kiss Harry? I mean she said something like "and you, Harry..." (notice the ...) what was going on there? Maybe she kissed him too? We could only hope... so if that is the case then maybe it was to balance everything out. Hermione kissed Harry in Book 4. Now she kisses Ron in 5, but also Harry (if that's what indeed happened) so maybe this is yet another diversion upon a diversion of J.K.'s... sorry if that didn't make sense, just thought I'd add my new finding. Please continue with your posts!

Actually, the quote about the kiss was, "And you Harry-" With an - at the end. Ususally it's a symbol when someone gets interrupted.

Oh whoops Disregard that last post of mine then ... Continue on with your posts on the kiss theory! Sorry for my stupid interuption.

Something I firmly believe in- nothing is truly stupid. If it wandered across your mind, it must have some significance.

AML
~*kt*~

nothing is truly stupid. If it wandered across your mind, it must have some significance.

A good theory there. '-' can also be used as a sign of not wanting to repeat what has just been said. However, I have a feeling they were interupted because of the next line.

QUOTE

can also be used as a sign of not wanting to repeat what has just been said

Too true! But LimpNoodle2004 said their interuption was stupid. I just didn't want anyone feeling down.

AML
~*kt*~

No no whoops... I meant MY interruption was stupid... not anyone else's. When I said the whole Hermione might have kissed Harry in Book 5. THAT was stupid. So I wasn't insulting anyone else, but me. I was saying to disregard what I had said. Sorry for the confusion. Hope you still love me!

It wasn't stupid. She may well have done. You just don't know with the whole '-' thing. JKR may not have repeated herself, or just wanted the tide to turn with the kiss and not told anyone else.

I have mentined this before in this board, my own observation about the kiss:

When Hermione kissed Harry in bk 4, the r/hr people call it "platonic", even when JKR made Harry realize "its the first time she has done it". And when Hermione kissed Ron right before the game in bk 5, all there was was Ron's reaction to it. But no where did JKR place Hermione's thoughts and responses to these so called "kisses", or is there??

Everything that's been said about the kisses are pure speculations, ideas outside JKR's. Like, oooh Hermione kissed Ron, theyre going to end up togehter...NOOOO, its only platonic. when Hermione kissed Harry, they're more like borthers and sisters...Now where in the books did JKR say these??? In the interviews???

Right. Like JKR would really say what's ahead in her books. Sure she said Harry and Hermione are platonic friends. But she didnt say they would remain that way , right? Why, she couldnt even say who would die in bk 5 without you buying the book, now she's going to give out definite answers for bk 6 and 7?? Cmon, stop dreaming .

There is nothing to the kisses except what readers interpret them to be. Just as Bk4 was regarded by some R/HR (Heck, maybe even the whole lot )that bk 5 is going to be R/HR snogging series. Look how wrong they are and how elated H/HR shippers are with Bk5.

crookshank:

Go, go, go, go, go shorty, it's your birthday, we gonna party like it's ya birthday... *

Sorry, I had to celebrate. Excelent way to slam your point home. And I AM elated with OotP. It's the second half to PoA, our first H/Hr Cannon Bible!!!

AML
~*kt*~


*I don't own 50 Cent or his works... I'm just a fan. No copyright infringment intended. No money was made off reproducion.

jk rowling is writing from harry's perspective and think about it, after the 'And you, harry-' there is no scene to cut the conversation. Or if it is not wanting to repeat what was was said then there is no reason for harry to be confused about how ron was feeling at that time he was kissed by hermione. I mean what would you think/feel if you're standing right next to your best friend and he recieved a kiss from your other best friend and you did not?
sorry if i don't make sense, it's almost 3 in the morning and my brain is not working well.

You did make sense ... and gave me hope that maybe she did indeed kiss Harry too... that would be twice for Harry and only once for ***!... if that's what you were trying to say
...Anyway, continue on with your theories my fellow shipmates! I'm liking everyone's ideas.

dear people of portkey.org:
i did not mean to offend you in any way at all
that was my first post on portkey
i have abandoned all message boards practically since then
do not hate me for what i have said
i have seen the h/hr light
as i am posting this message i am trying to get it through my thick skull that it will probably never happen


i will no longer post on the message boards, i will just read them.
in a few weeks, i will probably leave forever, until it has been the 7th book, and the Harry Potter books are completly done.

I hope that Hermione did actually kiss Harry, but we see such a strong reaction from Ron compared to Harry. Do you think that the interruption might be sort of an awkward moment? Imagine this: Hermione wished a very nervous Ron good luck. She kissed him on the cheek; while he's still zoned out in Neptune she turns to Harry, but she doesn't say anything and just looks at him, and he looks back "And you Harry--" could be a foot in the mouth thing like I have no reason to kiss you so I can't, but I really want to; so they just kind of stare at each other feeling awkward, then Ron wakes up and JK tells us his reaction. Maybe?

Well, before book four JK said something about Harry getting together with the girl in the beginning... my friend read it somewhere I'm not quite sure where she got it. unfortunately i din't get a copy of that piece of info but I tried to analyze the whole thing while I read book 4. I realized two things.. Jk might mean in the beginning.... of the books or two.... the last chapter of book 4 "the beginning" JK did say that she loved writing the last chapter of book four and the most significant thing that happened there was when Hermione kissed Harry on the cheeks and JK did emphasized that it was the first time Hermione ever did it... to Harry and probably to anyone... What do you guys think? when I read book four I was sure that people would be saying R/Hr but it didn't change my H/Hr feeling at all... Book five also reaffirmed my belief in the ship!!! H/Hr RoX!!!!!

Harry didn't react to Hermione's kiss?


How are Harry and Ron's kisses on the cheek different? Well, alot of R/Hers reckon that Harry didn't have a reaction to Hermiones kiss in GoF. And, well, you know Ron's story...

But, i was looking through OotP and noticed this...

pg.514

'He was very sorry to hear she had shed even more tears over it, but very gakd they were on speaking terms again, and even more pleased when she gave him a swift kiss on the cheek...'

Ok, he had just been talking to Cho about the Quibbler article. But notice how Harry really doesn't have a reaction towards her kiss? He wasn't suprised, numb, shocked, or anything like tha( even though they had kissed before...), but was just pleased. But then again, she pretty much was his girlfriend, so you would kind of be happy to be talking with one another again.

Which makes me think. Maybe this is why he doesn't have reactions to Hermione's kisses-cause he doesn't know how to react.

But then again, J.K is being a bit sus on the subject. Always just after she gives him a kiss, he is distracted by something else.

Uncle Vernon was waiting beyond the barrier. Mrs Weasley was close by him. She hugged Harry very tightly when she saw him, and whispered in his ear, 'I think Dumbledore will let you come to us later in the summer. Keep in touch, Harry.'
'Bye, Harry!' said Ron, clapping him on the back.
'Bye, Harry!' said Hermione, and she did something she had never done before, and kissed him on the cheek.
'Harry - thanks,' George muttered, while Fred nodded fervently at his side.
Harry winked at them, turned to Uncle Vernon, and followed him silently from the station. There was no point worrying yet, he told himself, as he got into the back of the Dursley's car.
As Hagrid had said, what would come, would come... and he would have to meet it when it did.

This is the full passage from when Harry gets off the train and meets up with his Uncle and Mrs Weasley. The claim here is that Harry does not react to Hermone's kiss. But if you read through the passage, he doesn't react to anybody, with exception of a wink to the Weasley twins to show he understands their graditude for the Tri-wizard Winnings. The book does not show him reacting to Mrs Weasley's hug and words about getting him to visit soon. Nor does the book show him reacting to Ron's clapping on the back.
This is because as we read further, he is thinking on what has happened to him in the past month since his terrifying ordeal with Voldemort in the graveyard.
It says at the very end, he is telling himself not to worry about it, what's to come will come.
In other words, he is mentally preoccupied, his thoughts and feelings are not focused on what is happening to him at that moment, but on what the future holds.
Therefore, the arguement that he did not react to Hermione's kiss, is not valid. At that moment he is emotional stunned. This is perhaps something that should be explained to other shippers.

Here's another take on the GOF H/H kiss. This is from Pumpkinpie.org, and was written by QuidditchMom (who wrote the famous H/H fics Remember Me and its sequels).


And here's another thread re Hermione's kiss on Ron's cheek in OOTP: