MOD NOTES by gal-texter

Significance of Harry seeing Hermione in his mind during his Occlumency sessions?
What if Occlumency makes Harry realize his feelings for Hermione?
If Harry mastered Occlumency, could he close his mind to Hermione?


Significance of Harry seeing Hermione in his mind during his Occlumency sessions?

Ok, this has been nagging me for a while.

I noticed it in Harry's first lesson of Oclumency. As Snape penetrated Harry's mind for the first time, we were confronted with flashes of Harry's memories. We see his unhappy childhood, under the sorting hat, dementors, his father and mother, Cho... and curiously *we see Hermione*. We don't see Ron *at all * in Harry's memories. There is a flash of Hermione's polyjuice incident almost seconds before he sees Cho. She is obviously included in some of Harry's more poignant memories.

Ok, now after a while I thought, well he only saw her because they had stolen ingredients for the Polyjucie potion, and he didn't want Snape to see. But then why wouldn't he of seen something else? Like him and Ron changing, mixing ingrediants, dragging Crabbe and Goyle to the closet? And all of the memories we were shown of Harry were ones where he was scared or in a lifethreatening situation!

Do you think that Hermione in the hospital then meant more to him than he realized? Am I a *complete* loony? Please let me know!

this is on pg 534 in the US edition... chapter 24

No. you're not a loony! I've been thinking of the exact same thing. I would respond a bit more, but I don't have the first four books with me right now

I've heard this discussed somewhere else as well. And I must say, Hermione does seem to be very important to Harry. Have you also noticed how he always hears Hermione's voice in his head? She's always there for him, even when he yells at her...
Anyway, good thinking! These are the subtle hints on which the HMS Pumpkin Pie floats

One more of these little theories that might be right, or might not.
But there's so many of these little theories now that they can't all be coincidences.

Love the theory, I never thought about it. I am sceptical though, but that's just my recent nature.

Maybe Harry was being protective of Hermione (as usual) and certainly didn't want Snape to know about their taking the ingredients. If Snape was pulling things Harry would never want him to see, then Hermione's involvment with that would certainly be one of those. Keep it up, Harry! Keep protecting your Hermione!

And apparently he didn't care about ron's involvment.

Hermione's always in Harry's head. He sees her during his Occlumency lesson, he hears her voice as his concious, and he even dreams about her! True love folks, true love.

I wish Hary could figure it out and start making some moves on her!!

Woo!Thanx for the input guys! I swear, when I was reading that part I was like... dementors..parents..bad childhood...hermione...ch- wait! Hermione?

I thought there had to be more than just Harry being scared Snape would find out they made Pokyjuice Potion! There's so many more things they've done against the rules, why did they show Hermione?

Give me a sign JKR!! *shakes hands in air*

I think there is definitely some significance in Hermione being there, mostly because it was times he's been scared. I think, however, if Ron had been the one in the hospital, Snape would have seen Ron. Hermione is in his thoughts, though.

These little theories can't all be coincidences. It's a SIGN!

All these theories can't be coindences! There are simply too many! I'd say it's a sign, but i don't want to get my hopes up too fast.

same here, I don't wanna get my hopes up, but well spotted anyway!

"And all of the memories we were shown of Harry were ones where he was scared or in a lifethreatening situation!"

That was the whole point. Occlumency was to be taught so that Voldemort couldn't access the most private of his thoughts, which always seem to deal with these situations.

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"And all of the memories we were shown of Harry were ones where he was scared or in a lifethreatening situation!"

So, I guess Cho kissing Harry under the misletoe was a life threatening situation?

QUOTE (Kalie @ Jul 23 2003, 03:26 AM)

So, I guess Cho kissing Harry under the misletoe was a life threatening situation?

It was for H/Hr shippers!

ooohhh.. your right. Unless he hyperventilated so bad when he was about to kiss Cho that he *thought* it was life-threatening! j/k..

I'll just stick to the whole.. valuable memories thing!

hahahaha I can already imagine Harry pulling off of Cho, panting and saying: "you're gonna sofucate me, woman!"
that'd be hilarious!!

In those memories, Harry sees Hermione with her cat face after taking the polyjuice potion. If Snape had seen this it would not have been enough to reveal to Snape that they had made the polyjuice potion. To do this, Snape would have had to have seen a memory of something like Hermione sneaking into Snape's office to steal the boomslang skin required for the potion or the memory of the trio drinking it and transforming.

If Harry was scared of Snape finding out about the polyjuice potion, he would have seen something else, not Hermione with her cat face. It shows that Hermione hurt was a scary memory for Harry, but not a memory he specifically didn't want Snape to see.

Hmmm.... very good spotting, I'm to oblivious when it comes to this sort of thing...I'm really going to have to start reading all these books over again, if only I had more time damnit!

If we think about this too hard, we're all going to get confused and end up with a headache that will last up to a week

Dreamer~

I think that Harry seeing Hermione in his flashes during the Occlumency thing was one of the major signs on how important Hermione was to him.

I agree with everyone. I think this is one of the many significant H/Hr moments. It may not actually point out to Harry having feelings for her but at least it shows that Hermione is always inside his head, whether he acknowledges it or not. Which is kind of sweet. Like it's but natural for her to be in his memory or for him to hear her voice.

How long is it going to take for Harry to wake up and smell the pumpkin pies and realize how he feels for her!

Hehehe

Oooh, I love those ideas. I agree with Anazecria, seeing Hermione hurt must have been scary for him.
Not one scary Ron memory and he's seen him hurt loads of times!
It's a sign I tell you! (Maybe )
Hermione is always on Harry's mind, whenever he's thinking of his friends, she always pop's up first. In book 4 when he's thinking about their reactions about his scar hurting, good old 'Mione's voice comes to his mind first and he has to think about Rons reaction.
Hmmm, a sign?

Good point Anazecria! That made me feel better lol. I can't wait for Harry to realize exactly how important Hermione is too him! I was so surprised that Ron wasn't in any of his more poignant memories. You'd think maybe he'd at least think of Ron being mad at him, or the Quidditch Cup, or seeing the darkmark in the woods with him. Or maybe even when Ron broke his leg in the shrieking shack when he met Sirius? Hermione was just so random, and for some reason I won't take it for granted!

It's like it was planted there.. to subtly grow in Harry's mind!

Oh wow! That never crossed my mind! Greeeeeeat theory, diam0ndgrrl, and a brilliant point, Anazecria! A couple of days ago, one of my good friends (cough cough) told me that H/Hr shippers are just a bunch of people who try to hold on to every little detail that doesn't mean anything and hope for impossible But I think all these theories will prove my friend wrong! Great job

Mean people!
We do not hold onto every little detail! We analyze (sp?) it and realsie it actually means something!!!
We read between the lines and look for the things that aren't so obvious. I mean, JKR is sneaky, so she wouldn't just turn round and say 'Yeah they like each other but they don't know it yet!' She'll put little clues in there for us to figure out!! And oh look we did! (maybe)
Sorry this is completely :offtopic:

QUOTE (Harry/Hermione 4eva @ Jul 24 2003, 09:10 AM)

Mean people! We do not hold onto every little detail! We analyze (sp?) it and realsie it actually means something!!! We read between the lines and look for the things that aren't so obvious. I mean, JKR is sneaky, so she wouldn't just turn round and say 'Yeah they like each other but they don't know it yet!' She'll put little clues in there for us to figure out!! And oh look we did! (maybe) Sorry this is completely :offtopic:

I agree with you! Keep em' coming... fun fun FUN!

Dreamer~

Hmmm, personal thoughts right? And when you think on it, most of these things Harry turned out to detest... Hehehehe! YES! Does that mean Harry really didn't Like Cho after all? Hmmmmm... and the idea that Hermione in cat form would definetely show he was feeling bad/troubled/scared for her at the time.... hm....
Most of these flashes seem to be moments he really disliked, annoyed him, or really got his blood pumping.... And note that the majority seemed to be with Hermione ::imagines Harry feeling his pulse quicken when he's watching her::... well at least it means Ron's not any of those things...

Ooo, you're right! Pulse quickening when he sees her huh?
Our little Harry's all grown up and in love with his best friend! (Hermi)

QUOTE (Harry/Hermione 4eva @ Jul 24 2003, 08:10 PM)

We do not hold onto every little detail! We analyze (sp?) it and realsie it actually means something!!! We read between the lines and look for the things that aren't so obvious. I mean, JKR is sneaky, so she wouldn't just turn round and say 'Yeah they like each other but they don't know it yet!' She'll put little clues in there for us to figure out!! And oh look we did! (maybe) Sorry this is completely :offtopic:

I think the things we look at are obvious if you're paying attention and not just letting the details wash over you. If you just let the details wash over you, you'll miss things and you might end up thinking outlandish things like R/Hr is gonna happen! (I'm sorry that was a little harsh) I do think it'll happen but it will be brief and not the final outcome because I've been paying attention.

I have to agree with purple_mud on this one. I my opinion, Harry seeing Hermione in his head (along with a bunch of other things) during his Occlumency lessons doesn't really say that Harry has more-than-friendly feelings for Hermione.

What I think it is shows is that Hermione is important to him, and he thinks about her and her safty. (Obviously)

I think Harry's just got the common case of I-have-feelings-for-someone-but-I-don't-realize-it-yet. Well, let's just hope Harry realizes it soon!

~Sweet

Well, Ive mentioned it somewhere in t he Debating thread a couple of weeks ago, that not only does Harry have Hermione in his mind every so often, he also has her in his dreams and even in his occlumency lessons.

JKR could have written in Ginny's harrowing experience with Tom Riddle, and Harry's experience seeeing her like dead in the chamber of secret. But it was Hermione she wrote in as part of what Harry keeps in his memory. Maybe, as I've also mentioned before, JKR is trying to build up a collection of H/HR moments that would serve as her basis for an H/HR ending.

Or maybe not.

Im whaT you might call pessimistically optimistic.

QUOTE

Im whaT you might call pessimistically optimistic.

Oh, I think I can relate!

QUOTE

JKR could have written in Ginny's harrowing experience with Tom Riddle, and Harry's experience seeeing her like dead in the chamber of secret. But it was Hermione she wrote in as part of what Harry keeps in his memory. Maybe, as I've also mentioned before, JKR is trying to build up a collection of H/HR moments that would serve as her basis for an H/HR ending.

I just love that! How true! I've never even thought of Harry seeing Ginny almost dead and this is something that should be lodged in his mind. I mean, not to belittle Hermione's experience, but Ginny had it bad then. And still it was Hermione's moments that he remembered.

Ohhh... a collection of H/Hr moments! ::gets all warm and fuzzy::

HAHAHAHAH! WOOOOHBOY!!! Oh my gosh I am just so pumped right now reading all of this I'm tellin' you!!! LOL
Anyway, that is such a good point there,

QUOTE

QUOTE  JKR could have written in Ginny's harrowing experience with Tom Riddle, and Harry's experience seeeing her like dead in the chamber of secret. But it was Hermione she wrote in as part of what Harry keeps in his memory. Maybe, as I've also mentioned before, JKR is trying to build up a collection of H/HR moments that would serve as her basis for an H/HR ending.

I can see it now... 6th book they get friendly with one another, Like they hold hands and they smile, and do crush like things with one another, then on the 7th book as a big bang when they all part different ways Hermione grabs his arm and hugs him. THen Harry goes through all these memories of them together (and maybe Jo could add a few not mentioned in the book) and he just slips and says I love you. All leading up to that H/H moment... ::Sigh::

eh prolly not how I said it, but it could happen right?

Yeah...Ginny wasn't in any of his dreams...man JK is confuzzlin me! You know that Ginny's just started acting 'normal' around him lately...and shes acting more like a tramp IMHO. I don't like Ginny, she's kinda fast and she's trying to make Harry want her. She pretends that she's over him and starts dating other guys to make Harry realise what he missed.


HERMY ROX! =)

QUOTE

JKR could have written in Ginny's harrowing experience with Tom Riddle, and Harry's experience seeeing her like dead in the chamber of secret. But it was Hermione she wrote in as part of what Harry keeps in his memory. Maybe, as I've also mentioned before, JKR is trying to build up a collection of H/HR moments that would serve as her basis for an H/HR ending.

Whoa there Sherlock! That was awsome! I never even thought of that, how come we didn't see him "gently stroking Ginny's hand with fear sparkling in his eyes" *flutters eyelashes*. Exactly, there's just something so wierd about how out of all the moments Harry's had in Hogwarts of breaking rules and such, the one thing he sees is Hermione in the hospital.

I'm just worried it's only because they stole the ingrediants from Snape...

But anyways..

QUOTE

Maybe, as I've also mentioned before, JKR is trying to build up a collection of H/HR moments that would serve as her basis for an H/HR ending.

This is exactly what I've always been thinking, but never managed to say somehow! All these little thing I pick up as I read, that aren't really "moments" but very subtle showings of friendship make me think shes building up a basis of memories for a H/Hr ending! Well said crookshank!

Hey all, I was reading through when I was thinking about something.

Ron himself has been in the Hospital a few times . . . . there were lots of times when Ron was hurt and yet they didn't show up in Harry's memories.

Let's recap, shall we?

1. The chess set with Ron
2. with the spiders (not really, but hey!)
3. when padfoot tackled him and his leg was broken
4. when something happened to ron with one of the wands when moony changed into a werewolf
5. ron in the second task

etc, etc . . . .

In all these events, we don't see Ron. Never, not once.

It seems that Harry and Hermione have a deeper connection that they can't even begin to fathom. They seem to look beyond everything and see each other for who they really are, but Ron can not get past his jealously issues of the fact that Hermione loves the library.

Maybe in the future books, Hermione and Harry get closer and Ron drifts away, but they come together in times of need and are still there for each other. *shrugs* Who knows?

Hope my information was valid.

Pumpkin Pie to all,
Witch of the Web

YOU GENIOUS!! WoW!!! I liek it! I guess Harry was scared..not in a life threatening situation...well, maybe not SCARED, but something like it, I mean maybe insanely nervous..I mean..yeah

What if Occlumency makes Harry realize his feelings for Hermione?

Just a thought I had tonight!

I have a feeling, that Harry will continue learning Occlumency in his sixth year, and will get his training from Dumbledore. Also I think Harry wont try and hide his thoughts from Dumbledore, as he did from Snape! More thoughts about Hermione may come out, but with more happy memorys per say. And Dumbledore (whom I believe is a Harry/Hermione shipper already! Note PoA sending them to save Buckbeak/Sirius. Don't you think that Dumbledore already knows that a Hippogriff is the symbol of love? Sorry had to throw that in ) will see the way they interact? Kind of maybe, give Harry a little push in realizing his feelings for Hermione? Or at least talk to Harry about them, getting Harry to start thinking about Hermione more. One thing I never understood is why has Harry never regressed about her for anything? Then I got to thinking, what if it's JKR's intentions, to have Harry think about this and finally realizing that he is in fact in love with Hermione. Where it hits him like a ton of bricks, when after he realizes that. And that is why JKR hasn't had Harry think about Hermione yet it would be way too soon for him to fall for her. But after he does he'll understand, and have to means to defeat Voldemort, once and for all. But I have a feeling that Harry will not defeat Voldemort alone, that Hermione will be at his side all the way!

Let me know what you think?

It's entirely plausable. I thought of that myself really. Good looking out there The_Boy_Who_Lived.

How's your essay going?

Awwww.... *hugs The_Boy_Who_Lived in sympathy* Stupid floppies...

I never thought of that! *fingerscross* Hopes it happens

Yes. Hopefully his Occlumency will be good for something and actually help Harry out in more ways than one. I like this theory as well.

Floppy disks are very unreliable.

Floppies are unreliable...I do think this is an interesting viewpoint and has some merit. I can definitely see Dumbledore giving Harry a kick in the right direction.

If he gets good at his Occlumency lessons maybe he could start taking Legilimency lessons. It would work to his advantage not only in beating Voldemort, but also if he wants to know what Hermione thinks of him he can just read her mind. He would get to see all the lovely memories she holds dear to her heart of hanging with Harry alone. I would really love it if JKR does that in the sixth or seventh book.

Good theory! It's actually pretty good. I hope something like that DOES happen. *sigh* How romantic it would be...

Good theory! That'd be so sweet! Awww!

He really needs to realise soon! And I think his Occulmency lessons will help him realsie!

I hope that happens now! It's so romantic!

Hmmm...Legilimency lessons? I wonder what he would see in Hermione's midn...I think we all know.

While Harry definitely has to learn Occlumency, I wonder if they will let him learn Legilimency. And would Harry use it on Hermione? This sounds a bit like the Pensieve dilemma... I was going to say something else, but I've forgotten it. *snaps fingers*