FrostbitePanda
Aug 20 2003, 06:13 PM
It is in my opinion that the DoM illustrated alot of intense moments and portrayed their flawless partnership very well.
It really showed how good of a team they really are. they work instinctively, without question, without hesitation, and without burden. They work with a simnetaneous flow, with actions that take no second bidding. They know exactly what they are going to do next. I haven't seen that kind of partnership in the books. Even Ron.
It also showed how important Hermione is to Harry. First, he pull her out of the group, making sure that she was safe, and with him.
Don't you find this part interesting? Of all the people he could've grabbed, he dragged Hermione foraward. Not only does this hint to some subconcious importance, but it also hints some instinctive protection. He did it all through this book. It's almost as if he won't trust her safety in someone elses's hands.
And then you have the scene where Harry thought Hermione was dead. (and for one awful moment I thought so too) That whole scene was not only sweet, but illustrated some feelings Harry has never shown us before, but was too panicked and rushed for them to sink in. The boy couldn't think strait, couldn't look at her properly...he was almost hysterical. She went down and for some reason he automatically thought she had been killed, either though it wasn't a killing curse that hit her. He screamed "HERMIONE!" rushing to her side in an instant, then, he started praying that she wasn't dead and blaming it on himself. This ties in with the protection thing. It was as if because he hadn't been there to push her away or take the blow himself that she had died.
The whole part was very emotional to me. I began to cry when Harry thought she was dead. That was the rawest of emotions we really saw of him throughout that entire book. (besides anger ) It was intense.
There it is!
~ A tired panda
MPotter77
Aug 20 2003, 06:23 PM
Panda, I know how you feel. I also got very emotional when I thought Hermione was dead. When I realized she wasn't and was able to register Harry's reaction, it was almost like a lightbulb going off over my head. That single moment made me go back and notice all the little moments harry and hermione shared throughout the book. They really do have a special connection, and Harry's reaction to her attack in the DoM is a great example of that connection.
FrostbitePanda
Aug 20 2003, 06:36 PM
| QUOTE (MPotter77 @ Aug 21 2003, 02:23 AM) |
| Panda, I know how you feel. I also got very emotional when I thought Hermione was dead. When I realized she wasn't and was able to register Harry's reaction, it was almost like a lightbulb going off over my head. That single moment made me go back and notice all the little moments harry and hermione shared throughout the book. They really do have a special connection, and Harry's reaction to her attack in the DoM is a great example of that connection. |
*nods* Couldn't put it better myself. ^.^ And it was my topic too. That wasn't a coincedence either. JK wrote it like that for a reason.
Harry will slowly (I think over the summer) will become aware of the relationship he has with Hermione and how important she is to him, and it may take awhile for that to spark an epiphany that would direct him to romantic feelings.
LadyMagi
Aug 20 2003, 06:47 PM
OH I agree with all of you! My heart practically stopped when I thought Hermione was dead. It started beating again after Neville said she had a pulse. But you know I wanted Harry to carry her when she was unconcious. I dunno why but I did.

Oh I 'm hopeless.
LadyMagi
Facade
Aug 20 2003, 07:06 PM
| QUOTE (LadyMagi @ Aug 21 2003, 02:47 AM) |
But you know I wanted Harry to carry her when she was unconcious. I dunno why but I did.
|
Don't we all? Anyway that scene was very emotional and raw. Take for example in CoS the please don't die scene with Ginny, then compare it to this one. There was a grand difference in both similar situations that it is not even funny. Here as said above, he couldn't think straight and was on verge of some emotional collapse. The intensity of these emotions, just justify my belief in Pumpkin Pie.
En Shu
Aug 20 2003, 07:13 PM
I found that as I read CoS, I didn't really care if Ginny died or not. possibly because she was not a well-rounded character yet or because I was much younger I do not know. But when Hermione got hexed I dropped the book and growled, punched my wall and began to cry. But then I found out it was alright....
I think the fact that Harry really freaked out when Hermione went down proved 2 things.
1 He really really really cares about Hermione (which has been established a gillion times)
and 2 Unlike in the previous books (1- end of 4), he understands his mortality--that's everything's not gonna be alright. He's finally stepping up into the (sur)real world.
Sirius83
Aug 20 2003, 08:33 PM
I agree with you - but you know what got me the most in that passage? This part right here:
| QUOTE |
"HERMIONE!" Harry fell to his knees beside her as Neville crawled rapidly up toward her from under the desk, his wand held up in front of him. |
Not only did Harry panic, he fell to his knees! Just picture that in your head. Furthermore, Neville gets kicked in the face, the Death Eater unmasks himself...and Harry's doing nothing. He's in pure shock, quite literally down on his knees, unable to do anything.
danlover
Aug 20 2003, 09:27 PM
i cried like a friggin lunatic when i read that part...it was like for the first time, i was seeing the real harry.

i dunno, the scene just really got to me. i felt...strange reading it. did you guys feel that way? i dont maybe it's just me, but i'd never felt that way reading a book before. especially harry potter. but, i actually thought that he would realize his feeling for her, but he didnt.
sunshinebelle
Aug 20 2003, 09:59 PM
Ooh I agree with you all. I cried like a freaking maniac all throughout that whole chapter.. and when Sirius died.. and when Harry felt empty.. and when he talked with dumbledore.. heck at that chapter and all after that I sobbed.. my mom came in and asked if I was alright!!! wow.. that was so sad.. ahhh!!! remembering it makes me want to cry!!
Anyways, another thing I want to say, is that proves everything. Harry did everything to save Hermione.. yes some may argue that he did it because he is her best friend, but isnt Ron? He seemed more concerned with Hermione then with Ginny in CoS, or even Ron in the DoM chapter!! Now, Ron is supposedly his dearest friend.. thats what it says in GoF (he was the one chosen to be under the sea with the mer-people) but yet, Harry was more concerned with Hermione, because he cares deeply about her.. he probably wouldnt know what to do if she was dead. I just think all that further proves that Harry and Hermione have a very deep special connection.. no one can deny that! And I think the R/Hrs are feeling a bit insecure about the fact that Harry cared so much about Hermione. And they should be.. I think that was a very special moment, and I think its one of the 'subtle clues' jkr has about them set along in the story.. yes I think shes trying to be subtle and 'surprise' us in the end. And you wont convince me otherwise!!
Great points everyone, I completely agree!
Now since we talked about something so emotional and angsty, we need some sugar! Lets eat some pumpkin pie! mm mm good!

*gives hugs to everyone*
~*Amanda
En Shu
Aug 20 2003, 10:09 PM
Here Here!!!! Hugs and Pumpkin pie is yum!
Your right Amanda (or would you rather be called sunshinebelle?), the R/H shippers are feeling very insecure now, so they're trying to post and post and post and post frivolous things to demerit us. Well, at least some of them are, I've actually met some kind R/H shippers!
So believe, my fellow H/Hers, for we shall be right in the end! (Please lord let us be right in the end or I will be in shambles).
Anyway, anyone else find it very refreshing to hear Harry yell, "I'll kill her!!"? It made me feel all tingly inside, like my baby's all growed up now. HE ACTUALLY ATTEMPTED THE CRUCIO (I can't spell crucktotus or whatever) CURSE! People, I say to ye: Harry Potter is no longer a mere mortal he is the beloved destroyer of worlds, the gargantuan of justice, the what am I saying?
Me sleepy.
sunshinebelle
Aug 20 2003, 10:21 PM
LOL I agree with you En Shu..
and you can call me either sunshinebelle or Amanda.
Sunshinebelle is a nickname, Amanda is my real name (nah sunshine is my real name! haha jk!) So, call me either! lol!!!
I dont really care! And that goes for all of you!!
*munches on a peice of pumpkin pie* MMM MM GOOD! Dont you 'Good shippers' wish you had somma this?? yum yum yum! (not bashing, just having fun! hehe!) You have to be a pumpkineer to get to have pumpkin pie! so there! tee hee!
~*Amanda
anja
Aug 20 2003, 11:56 PM
| QUOTE (danlover @ Aug 21 2003, 05:27 AM) |
i cried like a friggin lunatic when i read that part...it was like for the first time, i was seeing the real harry. i dunno, the scene just really got to me. i felt...strange reading it. did you guys feel that way? i dont maybe it's just me, but i'd never felt that way reading a book before. especially harry potter. but, i actually thought that he would realize his feeling for her, but he didnt. |
You are right! He did fall to his knees, he did not do that when Ginny almost died.
He only fell on he's knees then, because of the pain in his arm.
And i think he only says to Ginny 'don't die, because she is the sister of Ron.
If she died he would feel really guilty and could never look Ron in the eyes.
With Hermione its completely different. She is his soulmate, and i think he just realised that on that moment.
Do us all a favor Harry an KISS HER!!
anja
Aug 20 2003, 11:57 PM
| QUOTE (Sirius83 @ Aug 21 2003, 04:33 AM) |
I agree with you - but you know what got me the most in that passage? This part right here:
| QUOTE | "HERMIONE!" Harry fell to his knees beside her as Neville crawled rapidly up toward her from under the desk, his wand held up in front of him. |
Not only did Harry panic, he fell to his knees! Just picture that in your head. Furthermore, Neville gets kicked in the face, the Death Eater unmasks himself...and Harry's doing nothing. He's in pure shock, quite literally down on his knees, unable to do anything.
|
Sorry this was the line i wanted to qoute!
potter_head
Aug 21 2003, 01:56 AM
I cried too when I thought Hermione died. I thought she was the one who died... My heart also stopped and I thought, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! This cant be happening! Damn JKR to HELL!" Im serious... Oh well, Im glad she didnt!
EDIT: THIS IS MY 100TH POST! YAY! HURRAY!! *celebtates and gets drunk on butterbeer*
Scrivenshaft
Aug 21 2003, 02:58 AM
Being poor students, my boyfriend and I *literally* read the book together, and he was giggling at me all through that chapter - when Hermione got attacked I squeaked and started to cry, and then when it was clear that Hermione was *not* The Dead Person I was reading and muttering under my breath "bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch, JKR you are a bitch....". I was so unbelievably scared that Hermione was going to be the one to be cast off - and by the looks of it, so was Harry
Asriel
Aug 21 2003, 03:25 AM
Strange - when I read that passage, I didn't feel anything - mostly because I was dead sure that JKR was not going to kill Hermione or any one of the trio off until late book 7. Still, Harry's reaction struck me - if that's not a sign of caring for someone deeply, then I don't know what is!
Harry/Hermione 4eva
Aug 21 2003, 09:06 AM
I cried my eyes out when I thought Mione was dead. Even though I knew deep down she wasn't!!!! My parents thought I'd lost it, I was reading it out in my back garden and I just started crying! My neighbours asked me if I was OK I said
"NO! Hermione's DEAD!!!" At the time I though she was. They knew what I was talking about and they gave me the strangest look I've ever seen!!!
| QUOTE |
I agree with you - but you know what got me the most in that passage? This part right here:
| QUOTE | "HERMIONE!" Harry fell to his knees beside her as Neville crawled rapidly up toward her from under the desk, his wand held up in front of him. |
Not only did Harry panic, he fell to his knees! Just picture that in your head. Furthermore, Neville gets kicked in the face, the Death Eater unmasks himself...and Harry's doing nothing. He's in pure shock, quite literally down on his
|
Exactly!!!! Normally he'd get the Death Eater, but he's more interested in Mione, and hoping and praying, that she's OK. He was totally paniking and he couldn't think of anything else but her!
If that doesn't indicate what we've been seeing for ages I'll snap my skateboard! *Hoping I'm right*
Harry n Hermione 4ever
Aug 21 2003, 09:18 AM
yes the DoM scene is my all time favourite H/Hr moment in ootp...then again grawp is good too :0
FrostbitePanda
Aug 21 2003, 12:25 PM
^.^ I agree with all of you! And nice point Sirius83!
When I read that part, I felt like someone had slid a hook down my throat, and then caught my breath...yanking it right out of my lungs. My eye teared up for a while and...like Harry...my mind filled with a blank buzzing.
That part was very...intense. Even more so than Sirius's death. His death was so quick...so...unelaborated that I didn't really know what to do. it was like it had never happened. Then I closed the book, and then I cried.
*Sobs* Must. Read. Again.
~ A very depressed panda (in a good way though ^.^)
Fabiana
Aug 21 2003, 12:32 PM
| QUOTE |
| Strange - when I read that passage, I didn't feel anything - mostly because I was dead sure that JKR was not going to kill Hermione or any one of the trio off until late book 7. Still, Harry's reaction struck me - if that's not a sign of caring for someone deeply, then I don't know what is! |
That's exactly how I felt too,
thereader. At the beginning I was really rational about his reaction... I mean, he could be acting that way because he felt guilty about not listening to her advice - that his dreams maybe were just a trap from Voldemort.
But during the MoM scene, he had five great friends there. Five people he really cared about, because they were risking their lives just because of him. And all he could think about (at least before the whole Sirius incident) was HER. He just thinks about holding her hand, being around her and protecting her. JKR didn't write that by accident.
I think that was one of the greatest clues JKR gave about the "unlikely pairings" that will happen in book 7 (mentioned in an interview right after the book was released).
And I didn't cry in the end of Ootp. All I felt after reading the book was some kind of emptiness and grief. I was really pissed off and started cursing JKR with all the names I could think of. I think Sirius' death could be better explained and explored... (we, readers, deserved that). But that's

, sorry.
sunshinebelle
Aug 21 2003, 03:00 PM
| QUOTE |
^.^ I agree with all of you! And nice point Sirius83!
When I read that part, I felt like someone had slid a hook down my throat, and then caught my breath...yanking it right out of my lungs. My eye teared up for a while and...like Harry...my mind filled with a blank buzzing.
That part was very...intense. Even more so than Sirius's death. His death was so quick...so...unelaborated that I didn't really know what to do. it was like it had never happened. Then I closed the book, and then I cried.
*Sobs* Must. Read. Again. |
I know!!! I have to read it AGAIN!!!!!!!! ARGHHH! *runs off in search of OotP* hmm I have to go read Harry potter.. but first GoF... argh! too much reading!!!
Oh and good points everyone!!!! I agree with you all..
~*Amanda
En Shu
Aug 21 2003, 07:21 PM
If Hermione would have died then and there, Iwould have burnt the book to ash and hated Harry Potter for the rest of my life...except in fanfiction

.
I wonder if Herm found out that Harry actually tried to kill someone, let alone used an unforgiveable. How would she have felt then, even those Harry's actions are more than understandable.
Sirius=father figure
Dead father figure=

Harry

Harry= Lestrange (sp) dead woman walking. I bet shes the 1st to go.
And there I was, going through the book naively expecting Cho to go.
Sirius83
Aug 21 2003, 07:52 PM
Nah, i knew Hermione wasn't going to die...can't kill a trio member off yet. Maybe its the insensitive guy in me or something(just kidding about the insensitive part) but the scene itself didn't affect me. It was just that line when Harry fell to his knees and then couldn't do anything. I was just thinking "Whoa...Harry..." if you know what i mean. As for Bellatrix...yeah, Harry's wanting her dead, but i'd actually like to see Neville give ol' Lestrange her dues!

If Hermione knew what Harry did...well she'd be upset but i actually think she would be pretty understanding about it, but it would probably let her know just how bad Harry feels about the whole thing.
jackryan411
Aug 21 2003, 10:04 PM
Yeah, I think Hermione would understand...I think I would like this scene a lot more if (*sob) about ten pages later Sirius didn't die. I still like that scene...Harry drops to his knees (perhaps a symbol for what he will do later in life to her---propose)...I actually thought Hermione was dead---even though the rational part of my brain told me that she wouldn't kill off a trio dude in Book 5...but the reading part was freaking out and I read the next page so fast (I think I read the next page in about fifteen seconds) to see if she was dead, when Neville said she had a pulse, I re-read the whole page again...
sunshinebelle
Aug 21 2003, 11:43 PM
| QUOTE |
| Yeah, I think Hermione would understand...I think I would like this scene a lot more if (*sob) about ten pages later Sirius didn't die. I still like that scene...Harry drops to his knees (perhaps a symbol for what he will do later in life to her---propose)...I actually thought Hermione was dead---even though the rational part of my brain told me that she wouldn't kill off a trio dude in Book 5...but the reading part was freaking out and I read the next page so fast (I think I read the next page in about fifteen seconds) to see if she was dead, when Neville said she had a pulse, I re-read the whole page again... |
LOL yeah sometimes I skip ahead to see if anyone's dead just in case.. hmm I do that quite a lot.. and I skip to see the last page to see what happens.. I dunno im weird.. I cant stand the excitement! I.. must...see!
I dont know about you guys, but im DYING for the next book.. oh I do NOT want to have to wait another 3 long years.. better be at the most 2!!!!!!!!!!!
~*Amanda
DreamerBlue
Aug 22 2003, 02:00 AM
I take my time when I read the book for the first time, and then I read through at my normal pase. I read OotP in three days when I first read it but then it only took me 8 hours the second time... lord

!
Sorry mates... what were we talking about again? Oh yeah... nah I can't bare skimming through pages when it comes to my favourite books. And when I get near the ending, I dread it because I want it to last for ever! I would read a Harry Potter book if it were over 10 000 pages, yes I would... or any other book I loved... I just don't want it too end... waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Dreamer~
sunshinebelle
Aug 22 2003, 10:50 AM
| QUOTE |
| Sorry mates... what were we talking about again? Oh yeah... nah I can't bare skimming through pages when it comes to my favourite books. And when I get near the ending, I dread it because I want it to last for ever! I would read a Harry Potter book if it were over 10 000 pages, yes I would... or any other book I loved... I just don't want it too end... waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! |
I know!!! I want it to NEVER END!! When I first read book 5, it took me 2 days but if I read it straight through like I wanted, only stopping for food and bathroom, I would have been done in like 6 or 7 hours. *Sigh* j'taime.
~*Amanda
jackryan411
Aug 23 2003, 02:09 PM
It took me 6 1/2 hours...once we got home from the midnight sale of it, I grabbed some cookies, went downstairs, and just read like a fiend...the DoM was a great scene though...
sunshinebelle
Aug 23 2003, 06:51 PM
Im sad that its over and I have to wait 2 years till the next book though!!!

Sometimes I just want to forget everything I know and re-read the books again, just for that suspenseful un-knowing feeling!
Oh I cant wait for that feeling again! *dreamy sigh*
Am I crazy or can you guys relate?
~*Amanda
Amanda Rose
Aug 23 2003, 06:57 PM
I can totally relate! I read SS at like 10:30 at night, the last chapter. When I found out it was Quirrel, I was like Oh My God!
In CoS, I didn't suspect Tom Riddle at all! I was again, Oh My God!
PoA...Oh My God
I think you're getting the pattern.
En Shu
Aug 23 2003, 07:03 PM
We sure are,and in the meantime, we can always read the wonderful pages and pages of fiction provided for us here at Portkey! Horray!
| QUOTE |
| I still like that scene...Harry drops to his knees (perhaps a symbol for what he will do later in life to her---propose) |
If you didn't write propose, I'd think you were a very naughty person.
Facade
Aug 23 2003, 07:16 PM
| QUOTE (En Shu @ Aug 24 2003, 03:03 AM) |
If you didn't write propose, I'd think you were a very naughty person. |
OMG! haha. Thanks I so needed that part of my mind to get out.
En Shu
Aug 23 2003, 07:29 PM
I prob violated the TOS w/ that post, if there even is one (has anyone seen it?). But, you know, weeee!
I am such a naughty hentai
FrostbitePanda
Aug 23 2003, 07:51 PM
O.o
Even I didn't see that one! And I got a very dirty mind...
Jeez...shows how much I know! XD
~a very disturbed/amused panda
En Shu
Aug 23 2003, 07:54 PM
Maybe I'm just JA-JA-JADED!
Just for that, I think I'm gonna click on that livejournal link of yours.
And come on: you know they be doing it with the lights on, JKR just wont write it because it'll upset the chillin's.
FrostbitePanda
Aug 23 2003, 07:56 PM
Uh oh...my LJ...you better prepare yourself man. ^.^ Thanks for clicking on it anyways though! Lol.
And your last statement...I agree on *cough* but I ain't touchin' it...no way, no how.
En Shu
Aug 23 2003, 08:02 PM
Wow, that livejournal was...interesting. And I thought I was the only one who said Huzzah!



piss up a rope....oh my gizzard (yay, coldplay! You should listen to System of a Down, too)
IDEA!!! Someone who has talent (i.e. not me) should write an honorary song or chant for Pumpkinpie! Get cracking!
piss up a rope...
sunshinebelle
Aug 23 2003, 08:24 PM
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!
| QUOTE |
QUOTE I still like that scene...Harry drops to his knees (perhaps a symbol for what he will do later in life to her---propose)
-----
If you didn't write propose, I'd think you were a very naughty person. |
Hehe that was great!! Made me burst out laughing..
lol you have a very deranged mind and a sick sense of humour...
Good job!

tee hee that was wacked out. But in a good way.
Great now you've got me in a sick-sense-of-humour frame of mind.
Jeez, thats ALOT!!! LOL!!
~*Amanda
En Shu
Aug 23 2003, 08:45 PM
Wow, your kind post has got me buzzzzin'! That's why they call you queen of hugs. But people please: you don't really think Herms books are all spells and jinxes, do you? I'm sure she'll have some quirky experiments to try on young Harry. Also, I posted this before, but I didn't get an answer so I'll write it again.
Have you seen or heard any reference to religion in any Harry Potter book? Strikes me as odd, considering a lot of the people at Hogwarts were just muggles.
sunshinebelle
Aug 23 2003, 08:50 PM
| QUOTE |
Wow, your kind post has got me buzzzzin'! That's why they call you queen of hugs. But people please: you don't really think Herms books are all spells and jinxes, do you? I'm sure she'll have some quirky experiments to try on young Harry. Also, I posted this before, but I didn't get an answer so I'll write it again.
Have you seen or heard any reference to religion in any Harry Potter book? Strikes me as odd, considering a lot of the people at Hogwarts were just muggles. |
Is it because im extremely nice?? Yes, well its true! *LOL!* Nahh.. I just try to be polite and nice and genuine.. but thanks!

And I have no idea what you mean by your question so I cant answer that...
And as for the religion thing, no I havent! Im not sure why, but most people from my experience arent that religious.. I know im not.
~*Amanda
dreamin_athena
Aug 23 2003, 08:53 PM
| QUOTE |
| And as for the religion thing, no I havent! Im not sure why, but most people from my experience arent that religious.. I know im not. |
I don't know either, but hey, I'm not religious either, and I hate it when books get too religious, so I'm happy for that.
En Shu
Aug 23 2003, 08:53 PM
No idea? I bet your kidding. What would the books contain? Harry mistakenly goes to borrow a book from her bag, but removes Ultimate XXX tricks ten: Please your man with three feet of extension cord and common household cleaners. How embarassing!
dreamin_athena
Aug 23 2003, 08:56 PM
| QUOTE |
| No idea? I bet your kidding. What would the books contain? Harry mistakenly goes to borrow a book from her bag, but removes Ultimate XXX tricks ten: Please your man with three feet of extension cord and common household cleaners. How embarassing! |
Men...
En Shu
Aug 23 2003, 08:57 PM
No, just man... The man!
Wow, that was stupid, even for me. And that's bragable.
dreamin_athena
Aug 23 2003, 09:00 PM
The man? Oh, yeah... Now about the common household cleaners, are you speaking from experience?
sunshinebelle
Aug 23 2003, 09:02 PM
I agree Dreamin_Athena! Men!!!!
hehe two against one! We win you loose!

And as for religion, I believe in god but I'm not into organized religion. Going to church and everything. Pretty much they tell you exactly what to believe and say, if you dont come here you go to hell (those are the ones that I have experiences with)
And I dont agree with that!!
But hey, every church is different. I must have just had bad experiences.
The short of it is, I dont really like organized religion! *smiles brightly*
~*Amanda
dreamin_athena
Aug 23 2003, 09:04 PM
Heh, I'll take hell, as long as I can take the HP books with me and have a computer to post on Portkey with.
En Shu
Aug 23 2003, 09:08 PM
I believe in God, and happen to belong to the Roman Catholic Church (ironic, isn't it, seeing I been talking about threeways, etc. And yes, I am speaking from past experiences...it envolved a goat, a cat, and a hobo), but I don't really agree with much of the old testament. Much of it (my opinion) was myths and the like, ya know? But I am a devout believer in Christ and his miracles, but not cellibacy

.
sunshinebelle
Aug 23 2003, 09:13 PM
Hmm I think we should get out of this topic..
it may upset or offend someone that comes across it.
Besides, we're way off topic..
so how about that department of mysteries??

~*Amanda
PS: Do you guys want to start a convo thread over at off topic area?? then we can talk off topic and not get in trouble..
dreamin_athena
Aug 23 2003, 09:20 PM
Sure, any chance I can get a link? I suck at finding things...
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