Over the past month or so since I joined PK, I heard heard and seen many Harmonians complain about the "Heron Invasion"...

As you can see in this very same section (off topic section) I have posed a question to all the non-Harmonians on PK.

I also asked that no Harmonians reply to that thread in an effort to prevent arguments.

So I created this thread for anybody who wants to vent...

Question: How do you feel about non-Harmonians on PK?

Request: PLEASE keep your answers calm.

I know how passionate we can be as a group, and I ask that you try and maintain your posts insult-free...

And please, no personal attacks...


I would like to point out that we need to never stoop to the level of some R/Hr shippers ot there i.e. emerson... OK?

I would like to think that all the Harmonians on PK are intelligent, logical, polite individuals (like Hermione) who can live with
someone not sharing their opinion on a matter...

Please don't prove me wrong.



MODERATOR NOTE:

ANY SIGHT OF BASHING/PERSONAL ATTACKS WILL GET THIS THREAD SHUT DOWN. WATCH IT.

Miss Mady Jan 2008

Good job, PK-ers, for a largely respectful discussion so far! Please read this admin note. ~gal-texter 14Apr2008

Well I have never had a problem with other shippers coming to this site. Most of the visiting shippers from what I have seen have been respectful. I have also noticed that some of them will even apologies if they do offend anyone. I really haven't notice anyone coming on here to gloat that much. I actually expected a lot of gloating trolls the days after book 7 came out but I have been pleasantly surprised for the most part. To tell you the truth, I have even learned a thing or two from them about the books that I never considered or may have missed. I have even learned to accepted H/G and Hr/R in canon more from reading some of their posts. That doesn't mean I enjoy the ships, I just understand it better.

I enjoy some of the debates as well. The 'well thought out' debates are the best and I think it keeps some of us on our toes to go back to our books to prove our theories. They can be challenging sometimes but I think that is what keeps a lot of us coming back to this site. It would end up being boring if there wasn't something to debate about.

I will say, though, that we should keep the debates to the debate threads only. If I was to go to...let's say...the Off Topic thread and post something, I don't want to end up in a debate about which ships is better if I can help it.

I agree with just about everything you said FairyCat... Its how I feel too, personally.

I'm just trying to see what everyone else feels about this occurence.

As to why these threads are here...

I distinctly separated these topics so debates won't happen. The threads are here for people to voice their opinions, not to argue on who's opinion is right...

I found a thread full of them and wow, there are more of them than us. I'm not posting anymore at that thread. I found it very . I mean, we're here in Portkey! And even though their arguments were almost polite and civilized... Well I just don't like the subtle means of their words that I felt!

In the other side, I found many Harmonians arguing with them with several weak arguments, worsened by bad typing and grammar... I just found it unconvincing and made us look worse. Almost all Herons here posted logically and well written (yeah, of course it's easier for them because their ship has been canon, they only need to stick to 'obvious' facts and all of their arguments will at least make sense...).

That's only a small part of what I actually feel, but first I'd love to see what my fellow Harmonians' opinions.

I've found most of the Herons I've spoken with to be nice and respectful and pretty much awesome. I have many friends (online and RL) that ship R/Hr and/or H/G and they're awesome.

I don't mind them coming here to debate respectfully. To debate intelligently. What I do mind is when/if personal attacks are launched and it's not a debate anymore.

We all have our differences, yes, but it doesn't mean, "you're wrong, we're right, dang it!"

I have no problems with the Herons that come here on a daily basis. They are respectful and in some cases, they've behaved better than some of the people here. The back and forth have kept PK busy since the frevor over DH died down. I hope they continue to stay.

I don't mind other shippers on the site, despite the fact that the ones I've run into have been insanely rude. Though, like most, I was pleasantly suprised the day after book 7 came out...no trolls.

Well, you obviously having been on the Ron-Hermione abusive thread recently! I am being attacked by a pack of pit bulls there! And all because I don't give them chapter and verse or quotes from the books to support what I have been posting. I admit, I am not very good at debating, especially when I am being ganged up on! But now, it's a matter of principal. I owe them nothing. Portkey is MY safe haven. Those Herons can go to Hades!

If you are not much in debating, don't post unless you think your argument is very strong. I know that thread, if you read the thread you'll find that I posted there not too often because I know it's hard to resist them.

The topic of the thread (Ron and Hermione: Abusive or not?) was created by mollywobbles23 (a Heron) and she said No, not abusive. And in the book it was hard to find that they're abusive. Offensive, yes. Abusive, hardly. So this was the easy topic for them. You see how much the amount of them in that topic compared to us? Maybe 2:1 or more. And some of us were trapped because they thought a R/Hr said No then a H/Hr should said Yes. So I avoided that topic. I don't want to be gang attacked like that.

On the other side, it's worrying me that we could be overwhelmed like that in this Portkey. In Portkey, honestly!

I have alot of r/hr friends on other sites like ew.nwt, but for the most part the ones on here are okay, but a couple not naming any names aren't very nice, and when you debate they just call it bashing.

That's what I am worried about... Those kind of posters.

What can we do about it?

At the debate forum, just post if you're really sure with your arguments. Try to be devil's advocate for your own comment... Don't let even a gap at your post, and don't forget: if they're crossing the line, remind them where they are now.

ArRgHhHHHHHH....!!!

I know I should do it at frustation thread but I thought my frustration is in line with this topic's thread!

ARGGGGHHHH!!!

i know how each of you feel here but what can we do here i think that we should fight back for what is ours and not theirs. since the herons came here there has been nothing but trouble maybe we should go on here and pay no need of the herons and their post and maybe they will get the picture and leave. i dont know what else to do here guys do any of you have ideas.

As I said, the Herons here absolutely didn't come for nothing. They knew pretty well it's a H/Hr site and I'm sure at least they knew that some of us dislike R/Hr as much as who hate us in several other sites. So they will at least be prepared for one or two basic arguments. If they at least want to gloat once or twice, I'll call it humanly as I will do it to if H/Hr became canon as the shipping war had been fierce once (and maybe until now).

For the Harmonians, that's not the case. We believed that we could post almost anything here. I know that Harmony is right, it's our personal preferences.

I may only suggest that we should prepare ourselves far better in a debate. You know the debate wasn't fair; they had their advantages as canon pairing and therefore they had evidences especially at book six and seven where they had been canonized. So don't argue if you felt yours aren't strong enough. Try to be devil's advocate; counter your argument first before post it. Give a weak argument and it will be the fuel for their artilleries to continue bombarding us at our own stronghold.

Once more, I should warn all of you not to be trapped when it comes to take side in a debate. Just because Herons say 'No', it doesn't mean that you should say 'Yes'. R/Hr abusive thread had proven that. Try to view objectively and don't let them take your arguments to boost their engine.

I don't know, maybe we should all leave PK, then the Herons won't have any one to beat up on anymore.
Has any body been to Sugar Covered Quills? It's a H/Hr site, and it's great.
I've always loved PK, and I hate that we're getting bashed on our own site.

Damned ol' Herons.

But don't do it at DEBATING section... Honestly I found these Herons made me frustating if it comes to debate something unworthy of debate, but to argue weakly against them is equal to admitting that our ship didn't have many basis. And I will not be tired to repeat once more, don't say NO just because Herons said YES, or vice versa.

And Scout, would you abandon the stronghold of Harmony at the time it needs us most, at the Great Siege of Herons? That means you've given up... No, don't do that.

You can be assured, Rose, that if I haven't left by now, I'm not gonna leave at all.
Herons or not, this is a Harmony site, the first one I ever found, and the one I love.
They won't be pushing me off my home site. I just hope the mods don't kick me off for my bad behavior today.

Okay Scout. For now just calm down. Maybe you want a glass of drink ?

Relax. They like debating, like R/Hr. And please, don't debate them AT THE DEBATE THREAD if you're not ready to. It'll only hurt yourself just like now. I personally want to tell some of Harmonians to go at the debate forum and defend our ship (which is my concern because the amount of Harmonians:Heron at the debate thread is something at 1:2...).

I do find the idea of canons ships on a non-canon site odd. But thats just my opinion. I understand PK is very open so I respect that. Although I admit I have many very nice Heron friends on Youtube. Their are a few on here I don't like at all.

As for the debate thread, I've had my fill of that place. I know when to stay out of a thread. Especially when they are know-it-all types. But alas! just my humble opinion

Yeah, I'm done for the day.
Gotta go make dinner for hubby and son.
Probably won't be back for a couple of days, so I can cool off.

And I'm pretty positive I'm done on the debate threads completely!!

ATTENTION HARMONIANS:

It's best to just let the Herons debate amongst themselves on the debate threads that were initiated by them. Soon they will get tired of talking to themselves.

There are a couple of Herons that are seemingly more respectful, and neither have been on the R/Hr abusive thread or the Hermione in books 1 -5 thread. These two threads were initiated by Herons who are very argumentative and are just trying to rile us up (the Harmony shippers). I think that we Harmonians should not go back to these particular threads. But, if you do decide to go to these threads, be sure to check your tempers at the door, and be prepared to debate the pants off of them! Also, disregard their snippy condescending tones.

Stay strong fellow Harmony shippers. Portkey is OUR site, and I'll be dam*ned if I will leave it to them!

yes but if we did that then the herons would come to scq and harass us there too. what i think we should do is give them a taste of there own medicine and if they do not like it then they would like.

Yes. Don't let them ruin your real life, Scout. Never.


Yep. But I found it hard to argue as even the canon is on their side! Or more precisely, the AUTHOR! Be sure you're full-armed if you come into the battlefield. Oh yeah lovesharry, now that we could talk safely, how are your true opinion about R/Hr abusive (Yes/No) and Hermione changed so much in book 6 & 7 (Yes/No). No arguments. Just Yes/No.


Exactly. Don't even go see debate thread if you're not prepared. You'll get one headshot or two. Back to the time when I was a newbie (shamelessly saying that, despite I've been member for just 16 days ), I mean when I'm not so sure about the nature here, I won't even take a look at the debate thread. Afraid .

agreed so what do you want to do since it is our site and we are not going with out a fight. to me personally i think that the herons are making up stuff like they usually do just to get under our skin and fall for it every time with that being said here i for one going with a without a fight stay strong everyone and this too shall pass.

So you think we should kick them? Well... I can't think of that, honestly. They're quite civilized (I know, I know, maybe a little bit gloating, but still they did it politely). We're on the disadvantage here. They had canon and author on their side. You know, it's hard to attack the people that politely speak to you... I know, I know you're frustrated... That's why I wasn't going into debate thread when my posts here were still less than 100... I'm afraid...

So if you found a topic you strongly dislike but can't find any evidence to back your argument, just let the topic. For you, who used to post at Dueling Club before DH, I urge you to take your weapons and go back to the battlefield at this time when Harmony fatherland needs you at the most. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength, we shall defend our ship, whatever the cost may be, we shall never surrender. .

i agree but what i have notice is over the years that the herons then to make up stuff just to prove that they are right so what i am saying is let the herons continue to make up there version of hp and leave them be i believe that they will grow tried of having no one to talk to and leave this place for good.

"To prove they are right"? About what?

to prove there version of the hp story by throwing out lie after lie you know what i mean here.

omg i do need a drink those herons are getting on my last nerve here and something need to be done here but what i try to talk to then clamly about thing and they totally take it out of order oh well i know that i am not going to get to there level if i try.

Honestly, to me, for the most part, the seem pretty nice here. The nasty ones are around, but most of the nasty ones stay away from here. The ones here seem to me to be the ones who want to debate. I get that. I joined a R/Hr site once just because they had good debate threads. Most of them have gotten rid of the debate threads, so PK seems one of the few places to have a good debate.

Basically, I understand their desire both to understand us and to have a good debate. I love debating personally, though I haven't joined in the discussion here so much.

As long as they are nice and respectful, I have no problems with them being here. They often promote interesting discussions and help us to see other points of view. None of us are going to change our views, but a little back and forth discussion can be fun and helpful.

i agree with you to a point it is those who shall remain nameless that give us the trouble here and i have tried to play peace maker but that seem to blow up in my face so i am done with that thread for now with that said i seem to having some difcultly here with things so it best if i back away for a bit and get a clear head.

Just prove that they're lying. They debate logically, calmly, and professionally (which as I said, it's easier for them as they have canon and author on their side). And we should do that too, even more! Yes they belittled us, yes they may insulted us, but they did it subtlely! And we should do that too, even more! I personally will be embarrased if I attacked somebody who insulted me with subtle language even though I knew that I was right. But of course we can't just stay and do nothing.

We had our handicap here... So if we want to win, we should do far better than just personally attacking them and using weak arguments! I dare to say we'd lose the debate with strength like this even at balanced conditions (i.e. pre-HBP, when H/Hr vs R/Hr chances were 50:50). And now the conditions are even worse. We should do better. We could do better.

Well, I was hurt to say the least when DH came out. I was so hurt I left PK for a little bit to lick my wounds and then I came back to find a few Herons roaming around but not anything brutal. then They started posting and it wasn't what they said or anything like that it was just the fact that they could say R/Hr Happened! and I would get a little miffed because I felt like with every heron that posted R/Hr (even if they were polite) it was like rubbing salt in an open cut. I got angry and then I would get mad at myself for feeling that way over a stupid book LOL

So when I saw all the debates going on and the endless parade of harmonians who were just as upset as I was I left again. For a long while.

Only coming on here occassionally to read a post or two. So I have been gone (did anyone notice? ) for a long while. But now I think I am ready to be a human again

And I'm ready to let canon be canon and move on....to fanfiction

Do I care that Herons are here? not really anymore. I'll let them have canon R/Hr and H/G cause it wasn't written nearly as good as the supposedly "non" shippy H/Hr.

H/Hr had some great moments guys. We just have to use our imagination lol

I guess you can say I honestly don't care anymore that R/Hr and H/G happened. The One Big Happy Weasley Family Nightmare happened and I'm okay with that. I still believe that JK caved and switched gears after OoTP. That is the only way I can understand OBHWF even happening.

Welcome home Snoopie_pie! I missed 'ya.

You are one of the original Harmonians with over 2300 posts! And you're good at debating too. Glad you're back.

Hope you're here to stay for a long while!

Awww.....thanks that makes me feel good!

Now I don't know about being a good debator but I made a few good points in my day I guess

And yes I am back and writing more too

*Looks for her Dan Oogling thread*

I noticed you were gone, snoopy, but I figured you were romancing your new guy and that you were having a blast. XD

I came and went here in PK, too. I can't ever stay away for very long. I think the longest I've stayed away was three weeks. A lot of things about the forum have upset me every now and then, but I lately learned to just shrug off the arguing and just hop into threads I relatively enjoy. When PK upsets me again, I'll cool off, rant about it in LJ, then probably come back. That's why I never post, "I'm leaving," announcements. It's completely pointless and it would be embarrassing if I suddenly un-leaved myself and came back.

They're starting to attack our IMAGINATION here... And it's worrying me... I couldn't even use words like "Crapilogue", "GinnySue", or something like those safely because I'm afraid there'll be someone commenting about that... How frustrating...

I wouldn't be afraid to say those things if I wanted to say them.

The mods here didn't used to tell us we couldn't so I wouldn't let herons tell me not to and I wouldn't care if they did say something about it.

Try not to let it get to you

Snoopy_pie!!!! I did notice that you have been gone.

I think everyone has taken at least a week or two away from Portkey to cool off. I know I did a few times and I have to say that it helped.

Anyways, I am glad to see you are back and I hope you visit more often.

Hey there fellow Harmonians

I have a question... Why in the world do we have debate boards on PK anyway?

Debating with Herons and chocolates is seemingly pointless.

It all ends up going back to the way we see what is in the books. All so called 'evidence' that either side shows can always be seen differently as if we were reading different books.

We have canon up to book 5 and they have canon for books 6 & 7. I say do the Solomon thing and split it. Let them have the last 2 books and good riddance and we can have the real HP series that was in books 1 to 5.

Other wise it is all going to end up in something that looks like Jerry show...



I think from now on to save myself migraines I'm going to stay away from debate boards and try to keep people calm on regular discussion boards and keep reminding them that discussion boards are not for debating and this Is PK and so we should not have to prove anything about our ship or have proof to support our opinions of why we see the H/Hr in the books the way we do.

On the discussion boards I feel I should not have to defend my H/Hr preferances or explain why I have them or see someone putting them down or trying to disprove them by saying they are not based in canon.

Honestly on PK do we really care if the ship is based on canon anymore? I thought we were all supposed to be delusional.

And if all else fails and I still feel insulted or like I am being treated rudely by anyone, *shrugs* I'll just ignore them and report them and see what happens*

From what I remember we have them now because before we did the Harry/Hermione Section of the board got bombarded with herons and harmonians arguing over the ships, so they made a section for it. Whether the need for that section is existent anymore is something I've seen a lot of people bring up. I'd say it's there because it gets used and it's not going to go until we get hit with Trolls,like after HBP, or people stop using it. As for what I think about the Herons on here? My past posts kinda tell that story but in order to stay on topic, I've had mixed feelings about it since the release of DH. I don't so much care anymore but it is slightly tiresome to see our base view being attacked on our own site.It settled down abit now but for a while there every thread was a debate and I just stop reading them.I think the majority of the Herons here are actually respectful and I can't say they shouldn't be allowed here, even if I do disagree with the reasons that they come here.Public forum with no ship restrictions and all that.

Honestly I prefer the debate threads stay. It prevents debates erupting in our beloved threads that isn't about proving or disproving our wonderful Harmonious ship. *sigh* don't you just love Harry and Hermione together as a couple? *even bigger sigh*

Sorry......had to pause for some H/Hr goodness

It was a nightmare earlier because there was people arguing in threads that didn't deserve all that negativity.

So they opened the debate threads so the debaters could be happy and the non debators could have some peace.

*breathes in......breathes out*

ahhh.....peaceful harmony at last.

I guess I should ask: Why do we allow people that come here to bash the H/Hr ship to ruin the regular threads in the first place? I'm not talking about the 'polite' herons and choco that are nicer about the way they keep frustrating us in just making us feel like we have to prove our ship with canon or give reasons to justify our opinions... which I still think we should not have to... I am talking about the ones that make us feel the need to have the corraled up areas in the debate boards. I feel it should not be necessary to give in to trolls or bend over backwards to accomodate those that defile a sancturary of anykind. This is supposed to be a safe place to express our opinions about our ship. We should not have to feel the need to duck and cover in our own space.

Is it not possible to block trolls and ban/block those that come in and start to start up trouble?

I think putting up the debate forums was a good idea, because before that, there were debates all over the place and it seriously tested my patience. I'm not big on debates, so I was glad that there's now a section for it which I simply don't go into when I don't feel like debating, which is most of the time.

As far as trolls go, I don't think Portkey has ever tolerated trolls. If you see a troll, report it and the mods will take care of it. They always do if it really is a troll. If it's a Heron who just happens to have an unpopular opinion, then that's not a troll.

I think Portkey is much more the sanctuary now than it was back then. Like I said, there was no debating section before, so practically every thread I went into rounded up as a debate between Herons and Harmonians. I didn't like this at all since I, and many others, got forced into dealing with Herons as politely (or sometimes not polite at all) as we can. Now, with the debating rounded up, I don't have to worry about debates anywhere else.

Yeah, I suppose the debate boards serve a purpose but, I just wonder why... if people don't like our ship, why can't they just go somewhere else and do their own thing there instead? Why do they feel the need to come into a known H/Hr zone knowing that most of us are not comfortable with that?

I don't go to Heron or Choco site and spout off my convictions about H/Hr on them. And I know that debating is pointless with them...

It just feels like they are wanting to find a way to rub our noses in the fact that canon got screwed up so badly in the last two books and went their way and didn't stay with the plot from the first 5 books....

I come here for the H/Hr ship. I don't want to be reminded of the crap that was printed as the supposed canon in books 6 & 7 really.

I want my blissful delusional Harmony world. Is that such a bad thing? I don't want to be made by force to see 'reality of canon' or people gloating about the fact they got what they wanted and we didn't.

It is just a little depressing... I have got to snap out of this depression soon....

The thing is, PJ, some people actually like to debate. I love to read the debate threads and see the different points of view. I love seeing what others see in the books.

If there was a R/Hr site that was open to debating, I'd go there and read the debates too. Portkey is one of the few ship-specific sites that allow for debate.

I think that for the non-H/Hr shippers that post here, part of the fun is posting in a H/Hr site. That way, they can see things from our point of view. Portkey has always been a site that is open to this sort of debate, as long as it stays in the right section. Other H/Hr sites don't allow debate.

I suppose so Star but I just hope it all stays on the debate boards and not carry over onto regular discussion threads. Those should be ship safe right?

It's nice to see that my questions are still relevant... or maybe its sad... I can't decide.

I've been gone for a little while I guess...

I like that we are at least discussing this issue. It's definitely one of those I keep hearing complaints about...

Anyways, good to see some interesting points of view.

As for my opinion on the matter, I'm definitely with Star and Eve on this subject... I think it's good to have a place to debate if we wish to. And places to go if we don't. Like Eve said, when we didn't have debate sections, ALL sections were debate sections.

See you all around,

GM

Well the debate thread has been open for awhile now and so far so good. Most of the herons that post here at portkey are generally respectuful of our "H/Hr boards" and don't even post there unless it is a generic kind of post.

I haven't seen any antagonistic remarks about H/Hr for a long while. So all is well in Harmonyland

I don't see a problem with debates as long as it stays in the debate forum and so far I haven't seen anybody breaking out of the debate thread at all.

Not to mention the debates in the debate forums arn't all about H/Hr vs R/Hr there is alot of good discussion about many aspects of the books and I do enjoy reading them from time to time