MOD NOTE: merged with
Why All the Hate to Harmonians?, A giant 'why' topic .
I think this thread has given plenty enough reasons though, so I'm locking it.
~Pen/gal-texter Jun 2008



These are my personal thoughts and I'd like to have the opinions of my shipmates. Pls don't resort to character or shipper bashing since it would derail the points I'm trying to make.

Anyway, here are my questions:
Why is it that the sanity of H/H shippers is always questioned when there are other more outrageous ships out there? I've been going to different HP sites and am very dismayed by the excessive amounts of vitriol being poured on the ship. Is this because the ship gets in the way of the ron-hermione harry-ginny tandem? Is it the promotion of some very popular HP sites of an anti-H/H attitude? Is the existence of the Can't stand H/H threads providing reinforcement and flames to the fire?

I don't question the possibility of R/H and H/G so why can't they open their minds and do the same instead of accusing us of insanity and improper reading of the books and many more things which border on personal attacks?

I salute you shipmates for keeping the faith. It's not easy being an H/H shipper, with no big sites to give a safe haven and always being stuck between a rock and a hard place. The ship is either boring, cliche, or unlikely. We supposedly don't have the fire of the slash ships or the "canonicity" of R/H and H/G.

And yet, with all of these, my love for the ship will never waver since it's rooted on some of the most basic life principles that I ever hold dear, trust and sacrifice. Trust and sacrifice have always been at the heart of the H/H relationship and if it's not exciting enough or canon enough for other people that is their prerogative. All I ask for is a bit of respect. I will always love this ship and I hope you guys will stay with me whatever may happen in canon.

Forgive the ramblings of a disgruntled H/H-er,

~angelica

Firstly, welcome to Portkey! Glad to see more H/Hr shippers around here *passes a piece of pumpkin pie* Anyway, to your post.

I completely agree with everything that you have just posted. There are many reasons that we tend to catch the most flames . Yes, we go get in the way of the "One Big Happy Weaslet Family" theory. Which is clearly botched, because Ginny would take Harry's surname and become a Potter, not a Weasley. Also, perhaps other shippers feel threatened about the very large possibilty that is H/Hr. No matter how many snarky comments they make, it's always going to be in the back of thier minds. Same thing with us. R/Hr and H/G are very large possibilities( although if JKR is going to go that route, I believe she'll choose one and not both; it's to clean-cut and tidy )and that's always in the back of my mind.

The exisistance of "Can't Stand" threads don't help the situation either. JKR has stated that shipping is "fun" so why can't it be fun? On threads like those, all you come across is nastiness. You try to voice your opinions, you get shot down. Your post gets torn apart, disected, and thrown back at you in shreds. It's not fun and it's not pleasant. Which is exactly the reason why I've chosen to stay away from places like that. FictionAlley is predominately R/Hr anyway. Other shippers out there have very good views, but unfortunately shippers tend to be a bit biased and close-minded. Sure, I'm biased at times, but never close-minded. I've always welcomed the possibities of other ships( and other members of the board know that I tell people off all the time for ship and character bashing ).

There are also those shippers that say they only ship according to what's canon. Nevermind the fact that NOTHING is canon quite yet. Except for that brief Harry/Cho interlude in OotP. After reading so many theories and essays from many of the posters here, I'm more convinced of H/Hr now than I ever was before. I will always stay with H/Hr, even if it doesn't happen in canon. To me, it's the best ship to sail the HP fandom.

Congrats to you for never wavering. I know that there are many of us who have. Briefly, I have as well. But that doesn't stop me from shipping H/Hr. I agree that H/Hr catches the most flames. And like I said before, there are many reasons, but we may never truly know.

If H/Hr does happen, we will have seen something that those other shippers were refusing to see.

Welcome aboard!

hey i feel the same way. the personal attacks that they make on us ae the only thing they can do, because we can bring up better evidence of our ship than they can of theirs so they bring our sanity into question. so we do the only thing we can do we use a 'portkey' and go underground with our ideals. since its obvious that none of them have ever had a good relationship with any one, you can't have a good loving relationship without trust, and most importantly Respect.

while their not my book and the other ships might happen, i am sure that our will happen. but then again i'm arrogant like that.

I believe in pure love, true love that base on friendship and I see it from Harry and Hermione. They known, understand, trust, loyal and care each other.
This is my thought that I post at COSforums
In my country we got some phrase about love between 2 person
' Love as same as Clap your hands One-hand never make a sound '
Now the relation/feeling that I see.
1.R->Hr (isn't obvious for me because I only see the jealous that he shows I don't think he standing for her when Malfoy insult her can help while he is the one who insult her with the word 'mental/nightmare' too. And I never see he care/understand her especially when he act about S.P.E.W.)
2.Hr->H (it's obvious for me she do everything for him even though risk her life for him)
3.H->Hr (it's not obvious but for me its on his subconscious when he remind her voice, remember what she said, automatic protecting her (forbidden forest, MOM)
4.Hr-/->R (it's obvious for me she hasn't any feeling for him especially 'perfume event' it shows she wanna tell him 'No way')
5.G->H (it's obvious she had feeling for him but after OotP I'm not sure)
6.H-/->G (it's obvious for me he hasn't any feeling for her he acting as same as plain friend's sister)
Well, Love will work if it happen from Both side that why I see H/H beside I believe in their relation that strong and develop everyday.

This is my thought about two girls that people think deserve for harry
1.Hermione
Situation: best friend, same class, same house, always around with him especially when he lonely and Need someone (GOF-where the other girl)
Feeling for him: Care, Worry, Miss,
2.Ginny
Situation: best friend's sister, younger class, same house, I don't see she around him.
Feeling for him: Crush with the fame ((PS/COS),POA/GOF I don't see her, well as same as harry doesn't see her, this story is Harry's POV), Over crush (OotP)
About two boys that people think deserve for hermione
1.Harry
Situation: best friend, same class, same house, always around with her
Feeling for her: Care, Worry, Miss, and Annoy but understand (POA), and angry but finally understands (OotP),
2.Ron
Situation: friend (I don't think he stand the same place as Harry), same class, same house, around with her when he need her help (Homework) and when the other friend around (don't say they stay together when harry doesn't see, it isn't in canon),
Feeling for her: don't care (speak everything that he want even though it made her upset (S.P.E.W), jealous/angry and don't (try to) understand (Krum),
About girl that people think deserve for Ron
1.Hermione
Situation: friend, same class, same house, around with him for the other friend (the borrow, 12GP)
Feeling for him: Care, but after 'Perfume event' I doubt she doesn't care anymore.
About boy that people think deserve for Ginny
1.Harry
Situation: brother's friend, older class, same house, never around with her
Feeling for her: I don't see any feeling from him for her.
Maybe I'm wrong in the future but this is I see in present. (Canon from PS->OotP)
Harry & Hermione deserve each other.
Even though JK end this story with other ship I still believe in Love that base on friendship that I see from Harry&Hermione.

Thanks Kalie! One of the reasons that I'm really grateful for portkey is that it gives h/h shippers some peace from all the insults being thrown at them. It's important to foster a community for support.

I've been in this fandom since 2001. I've seen the ups and downs of the h/h ship in fandom and sometimes, shipping h/h gave me a lot of heartache due to the personal attacks.

Many people have wavered and that's why I think it takes a certain strong belief in the relationship to continue to like it. Whatever may happen in canon, I only hope that JKR continues to develop Harry and Hermione's relationship into a love (whether platonic or not) full of trust and forgiveness.

You're welcome! I'm glad that we have Portkey. It's the one place where we can really speak our minds and express or ideas without fear of having them questioned or debated against( with the exception of the H/Hr vs. R/Hr+H/G thread...but that's a completely different story ).

I've been at this fandom for quite some time as well. I recieved the first two books as Christmas presents back in 1999, but never read a single page. I thought they were kiddie books( never mind the fact that I was about 12 then ). And then when HP-Mania hit during GoF in 2000 that's when I really became a fan. I never did see R/Hr when reading the books. I was always firm in H/Hr for many reasons( far too many for me to list here...best saved for one of my essays ).

And I do also hope that JKR will continue to develop Harry and Hermione's relationship. Whether it be in a romantic fashion or a platonic one.

Fbc, welcome!

True, I'll always be a H/Hr shipper, and I'm 100% positive that Harry and Hermione will happen. Before I joined this portkey, in most HP sites, I was attacked really, from every H/hr views I have. I didn't attack their ship (R/H, H/G), I truly appreciate their thoughts. But somehow they kept saying things that were no longer fun to read. But my faith on H/Hr were the same: they will happen.

They didn't have to act like that if they're not feeling threatened, did they? And so I'm travelling around and by all blessings found this portkey site. I was like, 'Finally! People who can also see what I see on Harry and Hermione!' And in so many times I found great theories in here that I'm now even more positive about H/Hr.

So no worry, we're here together now, aren't we? Harry and Hermione will happen. Book 6 will silently tell, trust me.

Thank God for Portkey! I was wavering like crazy before I found this site! On the official HP boards, I was enduring attacks, flames, etc., but I finally found Portkey and I'm a stronger H/H shipper than ever.Thank you Portkey! Anyway, I have to agree that we get the brunt of attacks because of us stopping "OBHWF" and also because it's supposedly "too obvious."

P.S. Can anyone find any MAJOR HP news sites that are H/H? I mean Mugglenet is H/H, dunno what iHP is, and TLC's admin is all R/H (Two of their members are Sugar Quill dudes) except for Heidi Tandy who's D/H.

You know what makes me sad? It's as if we're being persecuted for finding beauty and love in the HP books. Even if it's not r/h and h/g, it should be a source of joy and not an attraction for flames.

I guess even in the internet people still practice a lot of intolerance even if it's over something that doesn't cause any harm to anyone. Openmindedness and kindness seems to be a lot to ask for people hiding behind a computer.

I agree with everyone, and just add by saying as erroom_potter did, that it is Harry and Hermione who have the repore and close relationship when it comes to opposite-sex relationships. She's never wavered and I doubt she ever will. There's absolutely no chemistry between Harry and Ginny (the rare times they talk to each other), and Ron and Hermione's chemistry is like acidic.
There is definitely a deep platonic relationship between H/Hr, but then it's those relationships that progress and develop and nuture into a full blossomed love... and that's what I believe we will see with H/Hr.

QUOTE

I mean Mugglenet is H/H

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Mugglenet is R/Hr majority( i.e. See thier "Couples" section for proof ). Slightly off-topic, but..

You know, if there's one thing that I truly admire about our shipmates, it's having the courage to proclaim what they like and believing in it and sticking with it in the face of a lot of negativity.

It is a beautiful thing.

Sorry, Kalie, that was a mis-type. I meant to say R/H, sorry. I have seen their wallpaper section.

I do go on FA. I defend our ship until the end, and I try not to bash their ships. But when they just throw every nice thing I say to them back in my face, I have to say I do lose my temper. I try to control it, but when I'm faced with some very mean R/Hr and H/G shippers I can't do it.
When I found Portkey, only a few weeks ago actually, I squeed my heart out!
I had finally found a site that supported H/Hr and had genuinly nice people on there. I love Portkey! And I love everyone on here!
You guys are amazing! And I'm not just saying that. You are all nice people and, you don't bash other ships. I respect you all for being honest and putting your opinions out in the open for all to see and agree with!
Thanks guys! You made being a H/Hr shipper fun again!

fbc I feel your pain the majority of R/Hr and H/G shippers are for just for some stupid little reasion mean, close minded, and hurtful. That support flawed logic and baseless propaganda. So not listing is my motto when it comes to the R/Hr and H/G ships.

QUOTE (fbc @ Aug 3 2003, 12:07 AM)

I will always love this ship and I hope you guys will stay with me whatever may happen in canon.

Welcome, fbc! It's truly a grand occasion when another shipper steps onto the deck of our lovely ship, and I must commend you for presenting your viewpoints so eloquently.

Seeing as how Kalie did an excellent job addressing the majority of your concerns, I hope you don't mind if I bring up something you mentioned in your first post.

I too will forever ship Harry and Hermione, no matter what JKR decides to write, whether Ron and Hermione decide to attempt a relationship, Harry and Ginny somehow fall in absolute and utter love, and Cho and Winky join forces as the Hogwarts Hosepipes. I believe it's our shippers' faith that makes this ship so sturdy; in my opinion, it's useless to deny the possiblity of R/Hr, no matter how much I may despise it, but that will never keep me from doling out the pumpkin pie and standing resolutely with my fellow shippers.

The sixth and seventh books may brings tragic events to our ship, or perhaps even the opposing ones, but irregardless what happens, I truly hope Portkey will stand strong and still be a home to those following the one ship built on trust and faith. And if my worst fears do come true and the R/Hr shippers dance wildly on their ship, then let one thing be known.

I'll be damned if I'm going to let canon stand in the way of my celebration of HMS Pumpkin Pie.

Very nicely put. I, too, think it's very uncalled for when the H/Hr ship and it's shippers are bashed. There are so many other ships that are extremely unlikely in canon, but they don't get half as much grief as our own does. I'm sick of constantly being called "blind", "stupid," and the ever popular, "Are you READING the same book as me? Does the word PLATONIC mean anything to you?"

If R/Hr or H/G or BOTH happen in canon, I'll accept it because JKR is a genius, and if that's the way that she thinks will make the book the best, then so be it. I'll be very dissapointed though, and in the back corner of my mind I'll always think that H/Hr would be a better way to go. And I won't jump ships just because JKR says so!

I do think though, that if these two ships were to happen in canon, that I'd be less obsessive about internet debating and such. I'd probably never lurk around R/Hr sites or FictionAlley Park again, ha ha. I don't think I could stand all the "I TOLD YOU SO! JEEZE, H/HR SHIPPERS REALLY WERE STUPID!"

But I truly don't think that R/Hr would suit eachother perfectly. It all boils down to this-- Hermione is 100% devoted to Harry and his safety and well-being. Even if she's not in love with him, she's always there watching out for him. And it's obvious that Ron loves attention.. in PoA, when Sirius slashes his bed curtains, in GoF, when he "battles the mermaids (not)", and in OotP, when he wins the Quidditch cup. He loves attention, and personally, I don't think Hermione can devote 100% of her attention to him when he needs it most.

No, I'm not saying Ron is going to be all "Hermione, rub my feet", I just think that if Harry's scar twinges and Ron has a lousy day at practice, Hermione's going to be more worried about Harry, because that's her character, even if she only feels platonic love for him.

I believe that Ron needs someone who can appreciate him for who he is and not be caught up in Harry Potter's confusing world. But if Hermione can balance romantic relationships with Ron, and worrying about Harry, more power to her.

*ends rant, and wonders why she got on it in the first place*

Hey fbc, I recognize you from Fiction Alley! Welcome to Portkey- the site that will ease all your R/Hr pains. At least it does for me. No wonder you were so upset over R/Hr- pretty much all of FA is like the deathmarch threads. It's *horrible*

I agree with what everyone said so far in this thread! And I just want to start by saying- Ron and Hermione can fall in love, get married, make mad passionate love, and have 100 red, bushy haired babies (gag)- and I'd *still* ship H/Hr.

HP is supposed to be FUN. There are H/Hr hate sites around, joke sites, and truly vicious comments. Yes, I'm perfectly aware that it's the internet, and if you don't want to see it then don't. But they are attacking many people's point of views- and that's VERY low of them. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I read the book and I thought H/Hr would be adorable later on in life. I saw the possible R/Hr and I didn't like it at all. I thought they were annoying, like brother and sister- I did not feel the sparks. Does this make me delusional? By all means it does not! There are *alot* of people out there who like H/Hr together, and that's just something people will have to deal with. Some shippers are so obsessed with only shipping canon that they say if H/Hr happens, then they'll jump ships. That's where *we* are different. For us jumping ships is not that easy, it's not a crazy whim we obey simply from reading what's on the pages. We ship what we feel! Our instincts- what makes the books fun for us!

There will be no solid canon until book 7, and even *then* we might be left on a cliffie. There is no "right" way to read HP, it's all about what you interpret it to be! I definately have my shaky moments where I get scared H/Hr won't happen, but that still doesn't mean I'd ever ship R/Hr. It doesn't feel right to me. And R/Hr's have their right to feel that way about H/Hr. IMO our ship has a very possible chance of happening too. And the fact that we are so many that support something that opposes R/Hr is very threatening. Either that or it's just annoying. And honestly, if their so confident in their ship, they shouldn't care at all what we think.

I do get angry sometimes at the stereotypical view that all H/Hr's hate Ron, think Ginny's a slut and that JKR's a lier- basically we're all in denial. It is a very common misconception, and it's not true! Anyone can read the books and say "duhh.. I thought Ron likes Hermione?" It doesn't take a genius to figure that out! And because that's the only ongoing "romantic" interest in the book, we are supposed to assure ourselves it's gonna be the end?

*takes deep breath* sorry about the endless ramble! I got a little carried away..

Well said diam0ndgrrl Bravo , Bravo .

QUOTE

I agree with what everyone said so far in this thread! And I just want to start by saying- Ron and Hermione can fall in love, get married, make mad passionate love, and have 100 red, bushy haired babies (gag)- and I'd *still* ship H/Hr.

Right said diamOndgrrl and my fellow shipmates. I'll be damned if I let R/H in canon get to me. I'll still have my overactive (at times perverse) imagination to keep me going. If the so-called "Good Ship" sails off into the sunset, then small potatoes to me. Just cause something doesn't look like it's gonna happen, doesn't mean you should lose faith before it actually occurs. I like to stay tuned and see what happens (except when I hear gunshots). And for all those who are beginning to question, has "the Good Ship" stopped you from dreaming before? I didn't think so. So why let it get you down now, if it hasn't even happened? As they said in the 70s only with a new twist...Keep On Shippin'

P.S. "The Good Ship" is destined for a good trip...to the ocean floor.

why are we even thinking that it will happen in Canon? Honestly do any of you really believe that? i have yet to see ANY evidence that would even scratch the paint of our beautiful ship.

QUOTE

Keep On Shippin'

I like the quote dishhermsp very fun.

QUOTE

P.S. "The Good Ship" is destined for a good trip...to the ocean floor.

And I like that one even more .

SoulShine I say once again calm down your scarin' the newbies, now take deep even breaths in and out , in and out don't you feel better now.

Anyways way do we even worry it's not like we'll sink becuse of some little interview as dishhermsp said even if the so-called "Good Ship" sails off into the sunset, then small potatoes to me, the good ol' H.M.S. Pumkin Pie will just bow gracefuly out of the Cannoral Sea and move in to the Fannorall one.

Well said everyone, and I have to agree with you. No matter what, I'm shipping H/Hr to the end.

MOD NOTE: merging this with a related thread. Ain't it sad how long the shipping wars have lasted and still continue to some extent?
~Pen/gal-texter Jun 2008
Orig Topic Title:

Why All the Hate to Harmonians?, A giant 'why' topic



Since I've 'come back' to portkey, I thought I should get something off my chest that I've been harboring since You-Know-What...

WHY is it that Harmonians get most of the hate? Other ships have been debunked, even some along with HBP, yet on every fandom site I go to there is at least one person spouting the word "delusional" like it's the only word in the English language. Usually, I roll my eyes at these clowns and continue on, but lately it's been getting on my nerves - is it so hard for people to realize that just because we're online doesn't mean we're devoid of emotion? I like shipping just as much as the next person, and I can get pretty invested in it, so when my mental capacity is being mocked and I'm being called names for no reason, it makes me angry. I have to know why - what did we ever do to be hated? Honestly, we just have a different shipping preference, that's all. It's like every Harmonian has been stereotyped into this crazy, screaming nutter who flames anyone who tries to tell them their ship isn't going to happen! The shipping wars will probably never end, but I wouldn't mind them being a bit more civil. I don't know any R/Hr shippers here who have ever flamed anyone, and I just don't know why others can't behave this way. It's even worse, if possible, when a H/Hr shipper goes into a thread for another ship and tells them "it's never going to happen!" I've never seen this at Portkey, but I have on another site that I am very active in, and it just makes me shake my head sadly. *sigh*

Really, why can't we just be civil to one another?

-Jade

You ask why? Because we didn't hold still, because we didn't accept the one and only truth of R/Hr. We questioned things, we didn't believe every word just like this.

And we had and still have in the whole fandom the biggest canon backup for our ship though our ship might never happen. We always can claim, it could have been so easily.

R/Hr and H/G shippers don't like it if someone disagrees about canon ships with them. If you look they make an exception for H/Hr shippers who never believed H/Hr could happen, this are the good one, the sane one. While all others are not.

It didn't help the matter that we actually made fun of them just like they used to bash us through the years. In the first 6 months of this year we did b*tch back, dished that out what they took out on us.

That's why we're so disliked because we stand and always will.

Like PhoenixWriter said, it's because we make a whole lotta sense. We've got loads of canon backup. It's also because people don't like outliers, extremists, non-conformists, and individualists.
It's also because we've become scapegoated by the majority.
But alas, who cares? I don't.

It's kinda like that "saving" thing. We have to be "Saved" because we migrated from the norm.

It's a bad generalization that came about over the years. I know that when I had been younger I didn't have any compassion for H/Hr shippers, but I had been young and stubborn then. Yet, as I grew up and matured I realized that not all H/Hr were mean, easy to flame, or whatever other generalization about them that floated around the Internet.

The fact that H/Hr came up with such "out there" ideas, or so it seems to many other shippers, made it easier to make fun of them and their POV's. Yet, this got carried away and it there were people who were wrong on every ship out there. I know that there are flamers on other ships, on the R/Hr and H/G ships as well, but, for some reason, the H/Hr shippers got all the blame. It really is a shame.

Another factor is that many shippers, including myself at points, felt as if we were consently being made fun of by H/Hr shippers. But, not all H/Hr shippers are/were like that, but there were a few childish and immature shippers that gave all the other shippers a bad rep. A bad rep. that seems to follow you guys, which is awful because I've met tons of wonderful and nice H/Hr shippers who just love HP and find shipping to be fun.

I hope that one day this bad rep. you guys seem to have can go away and all the hate would go away to. I admit to have once hated H/Hr shippers and I'm sorry having been so naive at one time in my life! The only way I can think of repenting myself is by being your friends and sticking up for all the mature and wonderful H/Hr shippers that I have met here!

I commend you on your wise post. Comments like these get me all warm fuzzied inside... That there is a bit of kindness and sanity in this cruel insane world. That someone wants to be my friend even though they do not believe the same things I do.I also know of some nice R/Hr shippers out there. Heck, a few are my good friends. They don't judge me on my opinions.

thank you

The answer in simple for R/Hr, because we're the only ship that ever really questioned them, the only ship that served as any kind of threat. And we weren't just rigged up like Hr/D, JKR acknowledged us with questions, and things on her website like who does hermione love, harry or ron? We were and still are a viable threat.

You are welcome. After all, I know that I wouldn't want someone to judge me by something I liked before they even got to really know me. So, if I don't like it, then I don't do it. It is as simple and easy as that.

That's an odd opinion. Phoenixwriter and the rest of the "old crowd" can back me up here, but Harmonians could barely get in a word most of the time, hence the reason to create secluded shipping sites like a Mad World. As far as theories go, some of the Harmonian theories are "out there", but the ones that are most quoted (and liked) have exceptional amounts of research behind them. Besides, it's nothing like what you'd find on a Heron/Choco site. Just look at the oppoosition theories that I bring up. Most, if not all the bashing done by Harmony is at the oppositions theories, not the shippers.

I'm sorry if I offended you with my post! I didn't mean too. I just thought I'd give a different POV, that might be why my thoughts differ from the other post here. With me being a H/G and R/Hr shipper, I'm on the outside looking in on the H/Hr ship and H/Hr shippers. What I wrote is what I have seen and what I've found to be true. On another note, I never said, nor did I mean to imply, that any of your out there theories did not have any time or effort put into them. On the contrary, I know that each and every one of those theories were made out of love and devotion to both the books and your ship, just like every other theory out there. So, once again, I'm sorry if I offended you.

We offered canon based analyses throughout the Ship-Wars. In the PA there are so arround 160 essays, we got two file's one with 101+ essays and another one with canon evidence. Just a few are "out there" ideas.



Yes, probably because many shippers made fun of H/Hr shippers? I'm since 2003 in fandom and till 2005 there were hardly H/Hr shippers who started to get nasty in return but at points, I guess, they got enough. This of course apply only to the Debate threads, where the war took place most of the time and LJ.

You ask why H/Hr shippers are hated. The answer is simple. We are a threat. The result is this.

1. We get name-called. This is the most effortless way to degrade someone and the impact is huge especially when the source is from a top-watched site’s owner. Word of mouth spreads. Many people get addicted to using that word.
2. Our opinions are no longer taken seriously. We are disregarded no matter how many logical and appealing theories and essays we construct.
3. We are derailed because we stand tall. Even after the Interview and the book and everything else in-between, we are still standing tall. This is another reason why we are such an intimidation. R/Hr and H/G shippers cannot stand the fact that after all that has been said and done; we are still going on strong.

I believe it is far too late for any civility from either end because what’s done is done.

I think it's a case of a few people giving everyone a bad name. Just like there are R/Hr shippers who will turn up on H/Hr forums and flame them, there are H/Hr shippers who will talk about how they have superior reading comprehension skills and everyone who ships R/Hr is shallow. There's a thread floating around Portkey right now asking whether H/Hr shippers are smarter. That doesn't bother me, but I can see how it would sit badly with a R/Hr shipper who's never been exposed to H/Hr shippers. If the first thing you encounter on a shipping site is someone telling you how intellectually inferior you are, chances are you're going to be offended.

Same goes for the very small minority of H/Hr shippers who label R/Hr shippers as potential abusers. Again, it's the bad actions of a few messing things up for the whole bunch.

That isn't to say that H/Hr shippers don't get a ton of grief from some people. I hope I'm not implying that, because there's lunatic shippers on all sides. It's enough to scare someone right into genfic, really.

Hear, hear. Nice post, though I don't think that we're the scapegoat, per se, it's just that since hbp, we've been given the 'we-told-you-so' routine from a lot of r/hr shippers, who might have, after ootp, been afraid that thier ship wouldn't happen. it's like being on an elemntary school playground.

Lisse, some h/he shippers actually label r/hr shippers as potential abusers? That's a little extreme.

I believe that it was Eleanor Roosevelt who said something along the lines of "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent"...Now I know that I've never gone to a R/Hr or a H/G forums, so I don't know about things like who says what first....I don't go there because I don't like the ship...I like Harmony so I'm perfectly happy just talking about it with fellow shippers. That doesn't mean that I'm not up for a debate should one ever arise but I most certainly don't go looking for them, and if and when they do come I stick to Canon and not personal attacks. But I'm sure there are people on every ship that do...

But to tell you the truth...words are not truthful...words lie...they mean different things so if I say that the R/Hr and H/G ship is a shallow one then it's very likely that a R/Hr and a H/G shipper might come along and thing that means that I'm saying that they are shallow, which is most definitely not the case at all....I it simply means that I thought that it was written without depth. And then that could get you a replay like "stop acting superior" and to a comment like that I would then have to ask why they felt that I was acting superior...is it because they feel as though there ship is inferior or lacking....because in my mind no one can make you feel inferior if you don't already think that way of yourself or in this cause of your ship. Now I truly hope that what I just said wouldn't offend anyone because that's never my intention....but I could easily see how it could because when your reading something instead of actually seeing and hearing it from the person then you can never really truly understand how the mean something.

I also think that the simple fact that the Harmony shippers, IMO anyways, aren't really ones to let people make them feel inferior....they believe what they believe and when they are questioned they answer with the evidence that they have collected to back up there views, and that's why IMO we get the most heat. We don't see are views as inferior in anyways and there for others may see this as a sign that they(the H/Hr shippers) see themselves as superior to other peoples views....but just because you feel that something is better doesn't mean that you have a closed mind to other options, I don't think I have even seen a H/Hr tell another ship that their ship is never going to happen(...but then I guess I never really looked that hard). If the strength in my opinions makes you feel as if you are inferior then I'd say that was their problem and not mine....I shouldn't have to lower the standards that I set for myself just so that people don't get offended.....And I think that, that might be the attitude that the R/Hr shippers and H/G shippers take as an insult....Even though it shouldn't because they should feel the same.

But there is a lot of bashing that goes on with every ship, and I think that anyone who sees shipping as some kind of contest will always fall victim to the evitable Sore Winner/Loser complex at one point or another.
I personally don't mind being called delusional...in my mind it just makes us even more special and unique cause it lables us and separates us from the rest and even though I hate lables I like being different....The whole delusional thing has helped IMO to define use in character....it brought the Harmonians closer together and made many convictions even stronger!!!

I think I'm going to be very unpopular here but while I think that being hated is terrible and the interview was out of line etc etc and I am a H/Hr shipper etc I do think that there has been quite a lot of responses from this ship that I've seen mostly on LJ with a lot of mindless Ginny bashing and even Ron bashing and people who refuse to read anything unless Ginny is portrayed nastily and I think that this sort of behaviour obviously makes us targets and there have definitely been times I've been quite ashamed to belong to the ship. Thankfully thatseems now to have passed, but I still find it hard to find H/Hr fics with a decent characterisation of Ginny. Anyway, I rather think we have been to a certain extent bringing it on ourselves.

And if the R/Hrers gloat, well, I've read so many quizzes where we've said that if H/Hr happened we'd be just so happy to rub it in the faces of our R/Hr friends. Now I don't know if these shippers are joking or not, but I don't feel that this is a great way of going about things!

Also, I agree that in some sense the Herons feel threatened by us because we're still sailing, but on the other hand, they probably look down on us because we've not accepted HPB. It makes me so sad to see all these really wonderful essays proving that H/Hr could happen. I still totally think that Harry and Hermione are better suited for each other... but to pretend that JKR could still write it is absurd and I think the others ships probably pick up on this.

I'm really sorry about this... most H/Hr shippers are really nice and mature and don't bash Ginny but as in all things, it's the minority that get noticed.

~Silvestria~

Silverstria, I believe that you are right, and I wanted to say that...But, I felt as if I didn't have the authority to. After all, I'm an outsider here, so I'd like to stay on the nice side of things.

Anyway, like I said, it is just a bad generalization that H/Hr shippers have. Just because a few H/Hr shippers went and bashed Ginny, Ron, and/or the Weasley's characters, which in turn offends R/Hr and H/G shippers because we feel like we've been attacked, and the whole bad rep. started. It is kind of like how the H/G ship was always considered to be a "fairytale" ship, which made us H/G shippers feel like we weren't being taken seriously. Generalizations can be really awful most of the time.

It's sad that so many nice people get put into this bad generalization. I just hope that with time it fades away and I hope that, eventually, there can one day be more intership friendships.

The only reason that the Herons (in my opinion) are still mad at us still being around is that we are just a bunch of stubborn fans in their eyes. Aren't we all stubborn when it comes to something we believe in (Ex. the Civil Rights Movement in the US)? They thought that after being called delusional would make us abandon ship but that has just made us stronger. The Herons take JK's words and Mugglenet's words to heart believing that they are true. IF, speaking hypotheticlly, Harry had ended up with Hermione at the end; then the Herons would be the ones being mad. Ron only comforted Hermione at the end of HBP like any other friend would and this DOES NOT SHOW THAT THEY ARE A COUPLE!!!!!!!

We've been a threat to the Herons ever since the SS/PS was published and the Chocolate shippers since the CoS was published. The Herons and Chocoloateers are so angry at the pro-H/Hr pics of the next movie is because (in their eyes) H/G and R/Hr should be together, but the movie makers have to fall what the current book they are going by and NOT what the current published book says.

I believe we are forever labeled as delusional even if Harmony sails because the other ships will NEVER accept ours as cannon. The same will go for us when, but the Herons and Chocolateers always have fanfiction to keep them busy. However; fanfics are a way to let loose your anger on a certain character(s) and certain ships and they always get positive reviews by those who agree with the author's views while those who oppose flame review.

Can't we all just get along and stop flaming some ships. I know that there are some on all ships that will flame opposing ships, but they will just get banned from the forums so they can't login ever again. All forums are meant for people to post their views without the risk of being flamed and ridiculed. All forums have rules that govern flamers. Just a question; "Is there any other forum of HP ships that allows flamers who agree with their ship flame those who oppose it and flame opposing ships in a positive manner?"

Flamming is a way to give a bad rep to anyone and it's all thanks to that infamous interview that we have been labeled as 'delusional.' It has spread across the HP net site "faster than an owl can fly." It takes me awhile to control my anger before posting since some posts I read concerning the Heron and Chocolateer views makes my blood boil. Can't we just ALL get along and stop with this senceless flame wars that has been ever present since the publication of the first two books (H/Hr and R/Hr for SS/PS and H/G for CoS).

I apologize for sounding angry but this is how it came out.

That's okay about sounding angry. If I were you I would probably be sounding angry as well, and I agree with you about the shipping "wars" to me they are pointless and I think that such differences as to who one ships in HP should be irrelevant. That is why I am a member of HMS Peace, which happens to be a lovely community, and that it why I am in favor of the H/Hr rep. of being mean and whatever else being forgotten and put into the past where it belongs. Hopefully during the wait for the seventh book to be released, such discussions as these can disappear, or at least, that it what I hope.

First off, hey there LilyGinnyBlack!

Even though the shipping wars pointless, it will not end. Even if we wait it out, there will always be those who want to lash out. And I also believe that, as long as the movies are around (since we only have 1 more book left), there will be a lot of shipping discussions.

I was having a discussion with a new R/Hr friend and there are a few things that I find hillarious. We are all (R/Hr and H/Hr) going through karma right now. My friend was telling me earlier that before HBP, H/Hr shippers were thinking too highly of themselves and making R/Hr shippers look bad. Like Pockets has said, the whole "superior vs inferior" thing. Although some R/Hr shippers took it too seriously, when HBP came out, this was a way for them to rub it in the faces of those who have made fun of them. Than that word delusional started cropping from left to right. Because of the interview, the book and some of the R/Hr shippers attitudes, GoF promotional pictures come into play. Suddenly, for all the name-calling thrown our way, we are being given wonderful H/Hr images. This, of course, is making some R/Hr shippers angry but heck....isn't it funny? Do you guys not see the karma?

...sigh.

Ok, I disagree with this. While they may or may not look down upon us, I do not agree with your argument about us not accepting HBP, we do accept it. We just have different interpretations about it.
Is it really absurd? In my humble opinion, it is foolish to dismiss either ship at this time. Why? Well we have gone over this already, many times.



Did it ever occur to Herons here that we have been generalised and publically attacked ourselves? I cannot even count the number of times that I was called ignorant and foolish and some words that don't belong here, simply because of my belief.

I wouldn't try to point fingers and play the blame game because long before the Wall of Shame and the Harmonian attacks, I was on the recieving end quite a bit.

I think all the hate comes from simple frustration at our defiance and our beliefs. That is why shipping has become so significant now, because it's not just about whom ends up with whom, it's also a question about beliefs.

Yes, I would agree that our beliefs play a big role in why H/Hr fans get bashed in the HP fandom. We dare to believe that the words on the page (not any dug-up symbolism) support the possibility that both Harry and Hermione have feelings for each other that go beyond platonic friendship, or could become romantic at some later date. How dare we think that JKR has actually written a deep platonic friendship that could eventually become a romance?! We must be delusional. I guess those folks don't know the saying by Andre' Prevost, Platonic love is like an unerupted volcano.

I dont know. What I do know is I didnt come into the online shipping wars till about six months ago.

Maybe Harmonians were haughty or whatever in the past. I dont know, all I can comment on is what I experienced.

And what I experienced was outright disdain for my opinion. And it annoyed me because no one would ever debate what points I had to make. I would just get "whats wrong with you, its OBVIOUS that it'll be R/Hr".

And it annoyed me, greatly. I'm not saying that Harmonians are smarter as a group, but it blew my mind (and why I was so angry with JKR) when I was told to reread. I've got a masters degree. I've never scored below 97th percentile in any reading comp exam. I KNOW how to read. Maybe I see things differently, but seeing things differently is not the same as being blind. As someone who is a strong reader, being told to reread pissed me off.

I dont know why there's all the hate for us. I dont know why we are labled as Ron bashers. (look at all the Herons who frequently would bash Hermione to make her unworthy of Harry). Maybe someone who's been around the shipping wars longer can tell me.

They're not smarter or more intelligent, but maybe they are more intellectual. H/Hr essays tend to be better written; they contains a lot of research in HP itself, but also in mytholgy and literature in general - and sometimes they become too far fetched. R/Hr essays contains often just references to Starwars, Spiderman and your daily soap mixed with the comment "R/Hr is obvious." In posts you can observe the same thing: Harmonians write much longer ones, like to quote and don't forget to mention the page of the book ... This doesn't make H/Hr more true, it also doesn't concern every and each single shipper, but it describes somewhat Harmonians and Herons as a group. If you could compare the school grades of both, I guess, these of the Harmions would be higher.

I have also observed, that Herons often have Ron as a favorite character and identificate with him; Harmionans have Hermione as a favorite character and identificte with her. When I read shipping treads in the past, I often felt rememebered at the bickering between Ron and Hermione ...
Often a Heron felt attacked by a Harmonian, but the Harmonian wasn't aware of this. The Heron had the feeling that the Harmionian had made fun of him, called him stupid or that the Harmionian was being arrogant. But in truth it was just the personality of him or her; Harmionans just tend to be a bit scholar ...



This part was from Melissa and I was really angry at her, although I have a high meaning of her since I have read her CoS and PoA movie reviews - long before HBP. These reviews gave me the feeling that she likes Ron very much and that he probably is her favorite character - and since the interview I'm sure that he is! But I just can't understand her! She says, that she's looking forward to R/Hr, because the Harmonians bashes Ron now. But not loving Ron very much is not the same as bashing him! Only a minority of H/Hr-Shippers bashes Ron, like only a minority of the R/Hr-Shippers bashes Harry and/or Hermione! It sounds as if she wants that all reader realize what a wonderful character Ron is and we have to have him as a favorite character too ... but this is just wrong! A favorite character is purely personal, like a favorite color or a favorite number. You can't convince someone to have a certain favorite character!!! MY favorite characters have to be interesting, not nice - and in consequence 1. Ron will NEVER be a favorite character of mine and 2. I wouldn't want to meet most of my favorite characters in real live. But this is just my way of reading a book, and my favorite character are MY favorite characters; I haven't the urge to convince anyone of loving them too!

This comment really let me feel as if my believing in H/Hr would be a crime ... But as it's Melissa's comment, I don't blame JKR for this.

I know how you feel. I've been at Mugglenet's forum before the release of HBP and I've gotten some people saying that R/Hr are obvious. However just saying that they are obvious leaves them open for debates but they just seem to ignore our comments since they feel they are now the superior ones after HBP.

Everything has its flaws and saying something is obvious is NOT a reason to support anything since there is almost no evidence to support their claim. Can't the Herons just stop saying that their ship is obivious without having to repeatily say it without any evidence to back it up. We Harmonians always back up our claims and some of the Herons just have to say that their ship is obvious while we are delusional.

I'm just quoting you but this refers to Silvestria too. Bashing characters don't explains why there is a fandom wide dislike of H/Hr shippers, at least it appears as if its fandom wide.

Let's be honest for once R/HR and H/G shippers bash characters too, they bash Luna, Hermione, Neville, Sirius etc. Nobody can tell me one hate's a ship because the shippers bash some characters. Aside this I'm convinced this bashing is most of the time a critic of the character, pointing out flaws and why one thinks they are badly written. That's not bashing by any means.



It's their problem if they feel inferior about their ship. We always saw our own flaws and mistakes if it came to Ship-debates while the opposite didn't. I was long enough in the debates to tell who is superior and who wasn't. IMO someone who refuse to debate with you but posts always the same stuff like H/Hr are platonic cause JKR said so is acting superior and arrogant.



Very well said. To this comes most are lacking at memories now. We were the underdogs in debate's not them. We had to face 10 militant opposite shippers who probably thought we're stupid etc. How the heck could we have appeared superior? It's quite simple we ship the Hero together with the most prominent female character in canon and alone this gives people enough dislike to throw at us.



It has been like this ever since I stepped in Fandom 2003.

I didn't mean that character bashing was the only factor that caused this generalization, I just ment that it was one of the factors. But, I've meet some H/Hr shippers who were not all that nice and some who were wonderful, and I've met some R/Hr who were nice and some who where awful. Everyone is different, but people tend to label each other into groups right away, that just seems to be how it goes. Though, not everyone does this, but a majority of people do, and it is not right. There isn't that much that can be done though.