Hi, this is my first post and sorry but this isn't a post containing any theories just something that happened.

A while ago my friend was reading one of the HP books and I asked her who she thought was gonna end up together, and lo and behold she said HR\R. Obvioulsy I was outraged because I am an avid H\Hr shipper and I told her so but she said it was obvious it was gonna be Hr\R and then I said what kind of proof did she have other than the famous " they have sexual tension" statement, then she didn't know what else to say and then I began with every single form of proof I had H\Hr was gonna end up together and that left her speechless until she said "Oh you one of THOSE" and then I felt even more outraged, what did she mean Im one of "those", I was very much annoyed with her. I don't understand, when I read the books i always thought it would be H\Hr, it makes sense to me, obvioulsy everyone in this site as well. and I have another friend who has never read the books but also belives that H\Hr should be together. I know this post was probably useless and full of my ranting but I just wanted to get that out in the open..

LOL, don't worry about it.

This is a common issue, not just with HP but long before it aka Star Wars.

I go to a website called Robetech.com just to read about the new series (if and when it will get released here in Australia, who knows) and the surprising amount of bitterness and infighting between star wars fans and Star Trek fans is shocking. So much so that they make the worst Heron, Choco, Red Mooners and Harmonians look like a bunch of wussy girlscouts. If JKR thinks we're scary, we've got nothing on the likes of them, trust me.

If one of them were to come here and start debating, most of us would be torn to shreds at how focused and how much work they put into their arguments. I mean, here we are, talking about 6 books, and they are talking about 6 movies, who knows how many books vs at least 9 movies, about half a dozen series plus countless books, and I kid you not, they can throw information so obscure (even if from HP) and yet so helpful to their side of the argument, that I'm sure even JKR herself would admit defeat (ok an exaggeration but not by far).

That's why I avoid getting into Star Wars vs Star Trek, now they are scary.

So like I said, don't worry about your friend's attitude, you'll encounter it a lot. My advice is to simply stick to what you believe. She's going to beleive what she wants, and you should believe what you think is right. Because even after it's all settled and the answer has been given, no matter which way she goes, me personally, I'll still think that H/Hr was the older, more mature, more reasonable, more sensible, overall better romance then any other couple in HP. Why? Because that's my opinion, that's what I've read, that's how I've seen the story develop.

yeah just let it go. Don't worry about it. She just meant that you are delusional at best and honestly if being delusional means I value mature, respectful and romantic interactions between two people then so be it...I am delusional.

If it makes them (herons) feel better to call our ship delusional then thats okay, I understand that they are probably insecure about their own ship. Its okay I undersatnd...poor poor Herons.

OMG! I'm a Robotech junkie! Ahhhh Rick and Lisa....the memories!


And yes, you are verrrrry correct. HP hardcore fans have NOTHING on the Trekkies and SW maniacs. Jo should be grateful.

M'dear, regarding your friend and other OBHWF's you may encounter, just brush it off.

I don't actively seek out or argue at all with Herons and Chocos just because I don't need the stress. It's pointless and a waste of precious breath to argue something that no one will change their minds about.

Plus, the only comeback I get is "well, you're just delusional....or ONE OF THOSE"



Yeah, brilliant mate....think of that all by yourself? Sheesh.

We all get that rubbish....just let it go.

Heather

I don't think I've ever argued with anyone in RL over HP ships... if I do, it's usually a joking kind of argument, ya know? We just laugh about it later.

I think there are more "casual" H/Hr shippers than most of the online fandom realizes... by "casual" I mean people who don't write essays or post on forums but are just like, "oh, they'd be cute" and forget about it. Most people I know from RL assumed it was going to be H/Hr b/c they're the male lead and female lead... it's a stereotype.

That said, you should see the looks I get when I say I ship D/Hr, lol. I try to explain that I don't think they'll ever actually get together in the books... I just think it'd be hot, ya know? I'm kinda the same way about H/Hr. I don't think they'll get together in the books (I used to, but I no longer do, which I know is a very unpopular opinion around here) but they're just so darn cute. Most people agree with me on that, lol.

I just don't make a big deal about shipping, I guess. But it's true that to a lot of people in RL, stuff that's pretty basic in online fandom (e.g. shippage of non-canon couples) seems really odd and foreign to them.

I think when people resort to name-calling it really shows that they are intimidated. From what you said, it sounded like you were spouting off a boat load of info, and she probably was overwhelmed. I just find it funny that R/Hr shippers still resort to the petty name-calling.

If you ask me...it's because they are scared. Yeah, JK did her little interview and wrote a little embrace for R/Hr at the end of HBP, so what? R/Hr still aren't together, and if they do, who says that they will stay together? There is still a ton of uncertainty, but to cover it, the shippers could use brash statements, wounding their opponents to change the subject.

On the H/Hr side of the end of HBP:

Hermione flung her arms around Harry in the Hospital scene and then H/G broke up...yup, I see that H/Hr have as good a chance as R/Hr.

DL

Insecure? Them? Nah....... Just because we're one of the most destructive ships in the Potter verse...... if H/Hr happens, that breaks up four or five of the most popular ships out there (namely two: R/Hr, H/G). We're quite a demoloshing ship. Isn't it great?

But anywhoo....don't worry about it. There are some people who can't see beyond the sexual tension of couples....and then there are some that can. If that means I'm "One of THOSE" then bring it on!

I'm curious, is it really that bad if your friend thinks a different ship is more likely? In real life I talked only once or twice about HP in general and shipping was seriously just a random topic. In both cases they stated that it will be H/G or R/Hr yet it wasn't very well written as romance, says HP won't ever win an OSCAR for the best romance written after their opinion.
Naturally I pointed out that I rather thought it would be H/Hr and that is. No big argumentation who is more right on this...eh...we rather ranted about how messed up HBP appeared.
My cousin seemed to be certain that she read somewhere JKR wrote HBP like this: First few chapters, last few chapters and then the middle part at last. After I asked where she got that, she just laughed and said pregnant women do always such weird stuff.

You really shouldn't worry about it. I mean, some of my best friends are R/Hr shippers and they call me delusional all the time. I actually think it's kinda funny. My "wife" makes fun of me all the time and calls me stupid for shipping H/Hr, but I love her anyway. (like how she loves me despite of my H/Hr-ness)

The only time I really ever fought with a friend about Harry Potter is when... Fred turned Ron's teddy bear into a spider. (She thought it was George.)

But honestly, are you going to let a friendship get ruined just because of a shipping debate? She's entiled to her own opinion as so are you.

I posted this awhile ago and I never thought anyone would actualy respond, so thanks to everyone that did. I know my friend is entitled to her opinion, it was just the way she had said "one of THOSE". I'm not really worried about it, what worries me is how obsessive you must think I am, Im laughing as I write this because as I was reading the comments I felt like I was getting lectured... and I'm not gonna end my friendship just because of a difference in shipping...we just don't talk about it...lol...
but again thank you very much for your input, I apreciate it..

Merging related topics.


Hey guys,

I was talking to a friend of mine who supports R/Hr and H/G and we were discussing it. We weren't fighting just talking. I showed her one of the threads on here and told her to comment. She had some good points from the other side of the shipping war, but I think what I said to her kinda made me realize something.

I mean we would love our ship to happen but if it doesn't we will still have our fan fiction and so on which we can get harmony fix. But I think the main problem is that the Herons and Chocos don't give our opinions any thought.

Like I said to my friend and I can't speak for you all:

i think alot of us harmony people can see why herons believe ron and Hermione might get together and i think that we just want them to see our point of view and to not just brush it off and call us delusional

she agreed with me and said that any pairing can be perceived in the books. She also said this:

everything can be seen by different people in different ways and no amount of arguing is ever going to solve the problems because everyone perceives things how they perceive them and if you're thinking ron and hermione then you're going to be picking out the bits that suggest that pairing, the same with any others

She also said that she half wanted Luna and Harry together. We talked about many different things and I think it is safe to say that no ship is safe. JK is a really good writer and you don't suspect half the things that happen in the book until they happen. For all we know Hermione will end up with Victor.

I've got a friend who ships R/Hr as well, and we get on regardless, just like you and your friend. I don't complain about her preferences, she doesn't complain about mine, and we both have a laugh over it.

It's always nice to see people getting along regardless of what ship they belong to.

I'm glad to see that people who are friends can stay that way when discussing shipping preference - it's a matter of respecting someone else's opinion. You can agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I can certainly see the Heron arguments (Choco less so, I just can't stand Ginny Sue!) and wouldn't respect a friend any less because she or he sees ships differently- even if they wanted H/G. As long as she respects my opinion, it's okay.

It's the same with religion, politics or other "hot button" issues. You can get along with anyone with opposing views as long as they aren't trying to outright convert you or make you feel inferior because you see things differently.

Most of my friends that are Harry Potter obsessed like me are pro-R/Hr and/or pro-H/G, except one.

We usually stay off the topic of shipping; instead, we talk more about general Harry Potter. I talk shipping with my H/Hr friend.

Miss Mady

I have some Heron friends. Actually all of my friends that like Harry Potter are Herons with the exception of a very few who arn't really considered shippers.

I get along fine with them. They are still my friends and I love them. I think the biggest rift between Heron and Harmony is this litle thing called internet forums.

I mean cause it is easier to call a computer screen delusional than your friend who you spent summers with and pajama parties and talked about your deepest darkest crushes with you know?

Yeah I agree with you snoopy_pie ! I have Heron friends too but we get along ok. We laugh at each other but we never get into serious shipping debates. Plus, we just talk about general HP stuff too or other things hehe.

Ever since I became aware of the "shipping wars," I viewed the difference between H/Hr shipper's POV and R/Hr, H/G shipper's POV as a matter of how each side perceives true love. That to me is the real crux of the issue regardless of whether one side or the other has clues or anvils to support their ship. Honestly, if I saw in the books behavior between Harry and Ginny that was akin to Harry and Hermione's respect, trust, admiration, selflessness, and loyalty towards one another (which are essential for real, loving relationships to thrive), I would gladly support the H/G ship, no problem. Same goes with Ron and Hermione too.

That's not to say that H/Hr are perfect - they're not and HBP proved it. But regardless of the ups and downs, those two have managed to maintain a strong foundation of respect and care for each other through all six books, no matter what. THAT is what attracts me to this couple and this ship.

This isn't just about pairing fictional characters because it's spicy, intriguing, and sells alot of books or because the characters just HAVE TO have someone. My respect for Harmonians has been that I share their appreciation for the obvious connection and love between Harry and Hermione, and the lack thereof between the other pairings. Infighting, jealousy, cowardice, self-centered pride, revenge, and snogging each other to death does not convey a connection and deep love by any stretch. It conveys a me-first attitude towards love that will utlimately kill any relationship worth having.

It isn't difficult to see Harry and Hermione's treatment of one another in the books - JKR made it as plain as day. Even Herons recognize these qualities in Harry and Hermione's relationship - they simply attribute it to mere friendship and draw such qualities no further.

So, the real shipping debate/question is: HOW DOES JKR PERCEIVE TRUE LOVE? All the bickering about clues and anvils is simply an attempt to discover the answer to that question. But hopefully that will finally be answered in less than 7 months.

Showing respect, trust, admiration, selflessness, and loyalty between people in the media today is simply not popular nor does it make money - people crave drama and conflict. But don't let that stray you from what you believe in. If you see in H/Hr what I and other Harmonians see, stand up for it whether JKR writes that or the other.

You think that's bad? My darling other half is a mild R/Hr shipper (she isn't really into the fandom and shipping wars!) and I have to live with her! Thankfully we don't argue about shipping...but she gives me resigned looks when I'm talking about it!

I don't have any friends with which to discuss Harry, and my family doesn't even tolerate the topic in the least. I embarrass them constantly when I see someone in public with a Harry book and I ask them about their shipping preferences.

I've asked many people and unfortunately all of them have been R/Hr and H/G. Usually, they mention Ginny for Harry because they want Ron and Hermione together because they are so cute.

I swear, if I hear that R/Hr are "cute" one more time....

I don't have anyone to discuss HP with either, except my online "family". And what gets me is that when I first read HP and then found the online fandom, I was shocked, very shocked, that H/Hr shippers were considered the "minority". I was hooked on H/Hr from Book 1 and never even considered R/Hr as romantic. But that's probably because I never considered teenage frustration with the opposite sex as "romantic". I guess it's "cute"! Ha! Rather sickening is more like it.

And Adam, I live with a "mild R/Hr shipper" as well. The one time I broached the subject with my husband over HP shipping, he laughed and said, "it's the redhead and the girl, you can tell from all the fighting" and he's never read the books, only seen one movie (POA) so he's not a shipper. I just shook my head and felt really depressed.

There are times when I wonder...why can't I even enjoy R/Hr just a little bit? And why do I absolutely hate H/G? Is there something wrong with me? What am I missing?

But then, I come home to my online H/Hr shipping sites and just share with my H/Hr friends the joy and happiness that comes from shipping H/Hr. They will always be the true pairing of the series, no matter what happens. I see their love and always will.

I agree. People who see R/Hr or H/G may be driven only by surface reading of the book or fairytale ideas of romance which colours their own preference for love.

A friend of mine says she didn't think Harry would end up with Hermione because they're just good friends and that of course it should be Harry and Ginny because he's the hero and she was the damsel in distress in COS. No other basis for the H/G relationship - it's simply because he's the hero and she's the damsel in distress.

I shut her up when I pointed out that Harry also rescued Hermione in Book 1 which bonded them, while Harry and Ginny never bonded after COS. In fact, he forgot about the whole thing.

My friend also says that of course it's Ron and Hermione because they are always bickering and that's what people in love do, until they solve that in the sack.

When I ask her what happen after the sack, she said then they have to continue bickering because that's all they really have to spice up their lives, and they end up in the sack again. And on it goes.

I ask her, isn't that tiring? And she agrees, yes, after a while, it gets old, there's nothing left to bicker about, the passion burns out, and this is where the relationship will break down. Both parties will start seeking other partners to get excitement from. And then she admits that the idea of R/Hr type of relationship is really not ideal at all!

But we both agree that in movies, conflict and drama created by bickering couples are more interesting to watch, but we both agree that as relationships to have in real life, we want HHr relationships.

With love,
myforeverharry
'who's bored today'

I was talking to my bro who is a big r/hr and h/g person and i asked him why they should be together.

He said that r/hr fighting gives it away, but i said it could be like a brother sister type fight and could mean nothing and i asked about ginny and harry and he said "Well harry might as well have ginny if ron will have hermione"

To me alot of those shippers tend to think that Hermione and ron should be together because Harry and Ginny were or vice versa which isn't right.

I can see where Herons are coming from but I dun get how fighting is meant to cause sexual frustration. Like i said to my bro i think Hermione and Ron will get together in book 7 but would they fight more because they were together, and the fact Hermione likes her freedom and Ron got jealous of Krum in GOF would ron start getting jealous of the time Hermione spends with Harry.

I think that will be the downfall of R/Hr. Ron seems to be kind of controlling to me. Like he wouldn't like Hermione talking to any other guys and so on and Hermione likes her freedom.

I would laugh so hard if they got together and then Hermione said to ron that it wasn't working because she was in love with Harry....

I find it interesting that we all have Heron/Choco friends who are without a doubt sure OBHWF is going to happen in DH. I would like the get the reaction on my friends' faces if Book 7 doesn't turn out the way they've thought was an easy finish line victory. I've noticed that if we ask some of our Heron friends why they like R/Hr,9 times out of ten they'll give the broken record answer of R/Hr's bickering is only a smokescreen that they love eachother. Of course I don't think my friends are familiar with the alchemical reasons, for why their ships could be in jeopardy of not being permanent. I wasn't aware of the alchemical symbolism,particularly in POA on why she chose to eliminate Ron from H/Hr and they shared the Sirius/Buckbeak rescue without him. I just thought "Hermione's Secret" was a cool chapter in it's own right before realising the depth of their partnership. Since DH is an odd number book,I'm sure we'll see H/Hr's partnership in full swing and some tip of the hat reference to SS where Ron is not solving the case with them. However it's written,expect our Heron/Choco friends to be completely livid and say JKR tricked them.

All of my friends don't read Harry Potter so I don't have anyone to talk to. Only my cousin reads Harry Potter and is a H/Hr shipper. After finding out that it was H/G in HBP she lost hope for H/Hr saying that it's impossible for JK to bring H/Hr together as the final pairing. I kept telling her that we have one more book to go and nothing is impossible and plus telling her that she has believed in H/Hr since book 1 and shouldn't just give up. She still thinks H/Hr won't happen but I think different. I have hope for H/Hr and nothing will change it.

You definitely don't speak for me. I've seen and been in countless debates and Heron arguments have never failed to underwhelm me.



While Hermione could run with Viktor in real life, she isn't going to because she's part of a work of fiction and fiction requires a framework of logic. Rowling will not and cannot change the direction of what she has written this late in the series.

P.S. Can we drop the relativism?



I'm definitely looking forward to this!



This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. If R/Hr are hiding their feelings, then their actions will not reflect their true intentions. Since we don't get to see inside their heads to see what their true intentions are (because of Rowling's choice of PoV), they have to resort to the bickering couples cliche in an inane excercise in circular reasoning.



Alchemy is also the reason why I believe that the Harry vs. Voldemort plot is simply a convenience. Alchemical stories are about the transformation of the seeker, not defeating a villian like in an adventure story. Second, I believe it will be romantic love that will defeat Voldemort because the merging of male and female is a necesssary step.



I don't see what the issue is. They didn't do a proper analysis and they will reap what they have sown.

I have two friends that read the Harry Potter series. One wants Ron and Hermione together. The other thinks Ron and Hermione are going to get together because of their tension but would rather have Harry/Hermione together.

Well none of my friends are into harry potter! I dont think my best friend has even read past book 2! Thats why I joined portkey! so I could discuss Harry potter ships and HP in general with people who have different and similar opinions regarding the issues in the books!

My best friend is a big Ron/Hermione shipper while I am a huge Harry/Hermione shipper. We are both very into our shipps but respect each others opinions and agree to disagree on shipping. In fact, we have had some great discussions about shipping and HP theroys in general. I think it's great to have an opposite shipper friend because it has helped me to be respectful of of there opinions. Things would be so much better if everyone just made an effort to get along.

My immediate family doesn't care for HP, but my cousins do, but of course they're the ones who live a couple hundred miles away. And my friends either don't read HP or they don't care as much as I do. The only other person that I've talk to about it and was a H/Hr shipper was my friend's boyfriend. And we don't exactly like eachother too much for past happenings. But when we were discussing how Harmony was the way the book was going we actually civil to eachother. Now you see Harmony just brings people together.

Whenever the subject of shipping arises, my friends and I get into pretty heavy cat fights discussions as well. What struck me during one of our *cough* discussions, is that most of my H/Hr shipper friends cannot stomach even the idea of Ron and Hermione hooking up, but my R/Hr friends have told me that they can accept Harry and Hermione if it's written in HPDH.

I agree with your friend that perception plays a large role in people's lives ...and during our readings of "Harry Potter and the...". The text itself is full of Harry's perceptions --- we are, after all, experiencing the majority of events that unfold through his point of view. Keep in mind that Harry Potter is the creation of one extremely beguiling author who zealously guards her secrets and delights in turning people's perceptions and expectations upside down and sideways.

R/HR is cute?
No offense to any R/Hr shipper reading this but R/Hr make Snape and Voldemort's fights against Harry as well s Malfoy's treatment of Hermione look like a PG rated show. JKr wants us to see the characters falling in love not make them reach a divorce court even before they marry.

Herons believed that they are cute because it soo entertaining to see them bickering. Much more action that Harry and Hermione having a nice conversation.
Mostly they believe that this bickering would lead to snogging then to bickering again. This cliche is well know in romance novel: the hero is bickering with the damsel he had to save and they of course had a really different point of view about life: he is the knight who spent his last 10 years fighting and she is the damsel who was either taken from the covent and is being escorted back home and didnt know anything about life in general. Because both heroes are headtstrong they begin to bicker, are attacked during the way and felt in love and are happy married at the end of the book.
What the Herons did always forgot that after the saving and before they fall in love they began to trust each others and the male and female heroes realized during those conversation that they arent that different form each others and thath they have a lot of common ground, the same outlook at life, the same dream, a common experience in the past etc., well in short the foundation that would enable them to fall in love in each other, something that Harry and Hermione have.

Oh that sounds exactly like my husband. Lucky for me our daughter, who is 10, sees the books exactly the way I do. Like me, she thinks R/Hr makes no sense at all And H/G made her gag. Actually HBP turned her off Harry Potter almost totally. She never let me finish reading the book to her; we barely got past Dumbledore's death when she said she didn't want me to go on I'm still debating whether I'll try to re-read all 6 books again before July 21st...

I'm another one who has very few friends who were real-life friends first to talk HP with. And my husband is a mild fan of the books and swears that he sees R/Hr...it was an extremely disappointing moment for me when he likened H/Hr to a friendship he has with a woman he went to college with, instead of seeing the H/Hr dynamic in our marriage.

I can accept that some fans don't get what we see in H/Hr. But all too often, what I've run up against is OBHWF fans who absolutely refuse to budge in the slightest from their views. (Kind of like my absolute and never-ending hatred for Duke.) Or the Emersonian superiority because they've let the interviews convince them that they're right. And too many of those fans feel that it is their solemn duty to convert every single HP fan to their side. Not a lot of "live and let live" going on in some corners of fandom.

Me too.

Unfortunately, I can't really talk to any of my really close friends about shipping, we just have to agree to disagree. Except one....she and I have a 5$ bet riding on the ships for DH.

My mother is the only real Harry Potter fan in my family and she ships Ron/Hermione. She thinks Ron is good for Hermione, because he makes her take life moe easy. She thinks Hermione is too serious and needs someone funny to help her enjoy her youth. She thinks Ron would be good for Hermione's children, too, because Hermione would be a stern mother and Ron would help them to have fun.

I think Harry would do all that, too, but with the important difference that Harry knows when the right moment is to have fun and when you have to be serious and face your problems like a mature adult.

My friend is a R/Hr H/G because she thinks it's and I quote *giggle* It's cute *giggle*
Me: WTF?!
Friend: *giggle*
Me: o.O ....
Friend: It's adorable.
Me: o.O. It's practically siblings.
Friend: But it's so cute.
Me: *headesk*

It was a sad convo, really really sad

xoxo
Hana