Starlight623
May 4 2003, 07:34 PM
Mod Note:
Original Topic Title: 'Hermione's Fate, From a Shakespearian POV.'
Merged with another topic called 'What Is Behind Hermione's Name?, Could Hermione's name affect ship?'
and with another topic called 'Greek Hermione Dicussing the Hermione of Greek Legend'
Related topics: Hermione in Greek Mythology, Solution to the eternal love triangle? (Only for mature and serious discussions!)
-Mirtilla 24/9/2004I was reading a book that really dove into the clues of Harry Potter and it had said to pay attention to Hermione's name. I looked up "The Winter's Tale" on sparknotes.com and read the plot of the story. Queen Hermione has an interesting part. Here's what it said about her:
Hermione - The virtuous and beautiful Queen of Sicilia. Falsely accused of infidelity by her husband, Leontes, she apparently dies of grief just after being vindicated by the Oracle of Delphi, but is restored to life at the play's close.
So I wonder how this relates to Harry and Hermione. I had asked a while ago if you guys thought if Hermione would die. Well, now I'm wondering if she might die and Harry will find a way to save her? (Or maybe come really close to death. But, I mean, what can't love cure?

) If Queen Hermione can die and come back, why can't Harry save his love (as soon as he figures it out)?
Now I don't know how an accusing husband fits into that

(if it does at all). But the dying and coming back intrigued me. Any thoughts?
Those are interesting points you gathered, props to you for that.
I think the name/Shakespeare theory could have some truth to it. There are many predictions circulating around here and there about the Ron--->Hermione "fling" that could happen in Book 5 or later, where R/Hr would go out and then decide that it would not work out. If you relate that to the Winter Tale story, maybe putting Ron is as a jealous boyfriend, accusing Hermione of ...let's say liking Harry, some sort of incident occurs where Hermione is injured, and Harry saving her life.
It sort of goes along with the rumour that Hermione is to be injured in Book 5 and spend some time in the hospital wing. It would be quite sweet if Harry saved Hermione's life. Maybe discovering his feelings for her in the process?
I'll think about it tonight. Most of this post was me rattling off the top of my head.
It's an interesting theory though. I'm almost sure I'll have more thoughts later on.
Love,
Aya
melolo
May 5 2003, 11:45 AM
This are really good stuff !
For one thing , its very possible that Hermione gets injured in book 5 , Its very possible that rons accuse her of liking Harry when they get together , and thats when she will notice ron is a annoying prat who doesnt trust her at all ( sorry to the ron fans , he and Hermione got to break up and this is a very possible way ).
For the second thing , if anything happends to Hermione ( After her break up with Ron ) he will want to rescue her but his big ego wont let him so its up to harry and he will go and save her , maybe Ron helps at some point but harry will be the one escuing her .
Think about it , though its just my little opinion
Melody
Jacy
May 5 2003, 01:52 PM
| QUOTE |
| Hermione - The virtuous and beautiful Queen of Sicilia. Falsely accused of infidelity by her husband, Leontes, she apparently dies of grief just after being vindicated by the Oracle of Delphi, but is restored to life at the play's close. |
Hmmmm...you just got me thinking...there's rumors about Book Six (yeah I know - 'we haven't even gotten to Book Five yet and she's talking about SIX?!' Work with me here
) that Harry and Ron get into a big fight over...yup, you guessed it - Hermione. So, say Ron and Hermione do start going out in OotP, and then Harry gets jealous and somehow, they both fight about her. She gets upset and goes running off.
That's when the next rumor comes in - Hermione is fatally wounded by Voldemort. Harry and Ron go off to kill him and are unsuccessful, but HARRY is still able to cure Hermione at the end of the book. (Mind you these are just RUMORS, nothing concrete)
I know I may be grasping at straws here, but that was the connection that stuck out in my head right away.
Just my two sickles,
~ Jacy
Starlight623
May 5 2003, 02:39 PM
Oh yeah, ron. Forgot about him. I guess he could be the jealous one. I am so in denial about the whole "ron and Hermione will probably get together" thing.
Those rumors Jacy mentioned could really come into play with the whole name thing. JKR is full of mysteries, but I lean to believing that her name is significant. It's not like Hermione is a common name that you can pick from anywhere (like Harry, for example). Or, it could just be a diversion. My brain hurts.
How great would Harry bringing Hermione back to life be for our ship?? Imagine rubbing that one in the r/Hr people's faces.
I'm not sure about her dying, exactly, coming close to death is a good gamble?
I believe that it was said there is no magic that can bring people back to life? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Maybe it will be like the way Lily's love for Harry protected him from death. Harry's love will protect and/or save Hermione from whatever will be thrown at her.
Love,
Aya
solemn pessimist
May 5 2003, 03:43 PM
Yeah, I dont think she'll die, but she may be close. I'm going with the saving Hermione in th Lily way thing....I think that's rather likely.
Starlight623
May 5 2003, 04:05 PM
Well, true, she probably won't actually die, but I'm willing to wager that she'll come pretty darn close. Besides, we already know what a powerful wizard Harry is/will become, so who knows what we can expect of him with his life-saving abilities.
Nothing like a side of drama with your romance!
darkstar
May 5 2003, 05:17 PM
I thought Hermione was just turned to stone, and it was revealed she wasn't really dead? Or I could be wrong...
Either way, I doubt JKR will stick to the Shakespeare method. After all, he had a habit of killing everyone.
Besides, she's her own writer, she won't just do what people before her did, simpl because it's convenient. I'm sure she'll surprise us with something.
Darkstar
LadyGranger
May 8 2003, 09:11 PM
Well, I read this on DVSEzekiel316 fic 'Final Year':
| QUOTE |
| "Hermione" was a character in Greek mythology who was loved by two men. She was the daughter of Helen of Troy and Menelaus. These men (Orestes 2 and Neoptolemus, the son of Achilles) fought terribly for the love of the beautiful Hermione (Harry and Ron?). Orestes 2 was killed by a snake. Could this mean that either Ron or Harry will die at the hands of Lord Voldemort (whose symbol is a snake?). Hmmm… |
fledge
May 9 2003, 04:51 AM
Congrats, LadyGranger

You're the first to point out there is another Hermione to be considered in this debate, and she's even number one! (Not everything must be Shakespeare.) And the analogies you point out out are almost frightening. I'd really hate for Ron to die (he may be an immature git, but I like him), but if it comes to choosing ...
Silvestria
May 9 2003, 12:01 PM
I think that the
Winter's Tale plot idea has already been used in JKR's mind. After all, in the play, in some plot I'm not sure about, a 'statue' of her is unveiled and then it 'comes to life'. This is like the petrifying theme in CoS and is apparently the inspiration (at least partially) for CoS.
As for Hermione, daughter of Helen of Troy, I think that plot could come into play at some point. Orestes, it should be mentioned, returned to kill his mother's lover (and muderor of his father) with his sister Electra. Sound familiar? Neoptolemos was rumoured to be a bit of an ass and Hermione was forced to marry him. And I'm not saying that this means Harry dies. There are LOADS of versions of this legend.
~Silvestria~
Grace Granger
May 9 2003, 12:34 PM
Hmmm...now this Greek Hermione has me thinking. Hermione is loved by both Ron and Harry. One gets killed by Voldemort. It is assumed that Ron would sacrifice himself again to save Harry, perhaps, he does get killed by Voldemort. And it will end the battle between Harry and Voldemort as well Harry and Ron's love for Hermione. Kinda sad when you think about it. But it'll be a twist to the Greek version of Hermione, instead of completely copying it.
Starlight623
May 9 2003, 01:44 PM
The Greek perspective does add an interesting twist. Thanks, LadyGranger for picking that up. Does make ya wonder what's gonna happen next.
And it's true, not everything has to be Shakespeare, but there's no getting around his popularity and talent. I can see why other authors would want to mimic or pay homage to his works. But that's just my opinion. There's no guarentee that JKR is taking either of those roads.
Sorry, I'm just a big Shakespeare fan and when I got told to look in that direction, I got excited.
LadyGranger
May 9 2003, 03:20 PM
You are all very welcome. When I found that piece of information it really got me thinking, because I have read bits and parts of a 'A Winters Tale.' I also have the book 'The Magical World of Harry Potter.' It tells the history of names and such. Its great book, thats how I found out 'Hermione' came from a shakesperean play. But the info I found about the greek mythology Hermione hit a little closer to home for me...
XOXOX LadyGranger
H/H4ever
May 10 2003, 10:51 AM
I really do not see Hermione dying.
Amanda Rose
May 15 2003, 12:41 PM
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]
This is my first post here, so bear with me!
I was reading Romeo and Juliet in my English class today, and I cam across something interesting.
Remember the mandrakes, from CoS?
That term was used in the play as a large part of the potion Juliet drinks to appear dead.
I know this may seem irrelavant, but I think this means that JKR got something other than Hermione, from Shakesperian literature.
I think this may serve as some evidence, since mandrake was used to revive from a deep sleep, that Hermione may serve the same fate as Queen Hermione from Shakespeare.
Hmm...
Amanda Rose
dejamevivir
May 22 2003, 09:03 PM
Mod Note: From here there are posts that have been merged from the original thread: "What Is Behind Hermione's Name? Could Hermione's name affect ship?" - Mirtilla 24/9/2004Hey all! Long time, no see...Just some thoughts, hope that the ADMINS don't think this is

...
Note: Any Greek and/or Shakespearian scholors aboard? Really could use some help on this one, so delurk...
I've noticed that some H/Hr shippers have showed the Greek myth that surrounds Hermione. This is a version, I guess, that I found quickly while searching Google.
| QUOTE |
Found in http://www.harrypotterrealm.com/mn_history_words.html
Hermione, in Greek mythology, daughter of Helen of Troy and Menelaus, king of Sparta. Although she was betrothed to Orestes, king of Mycenae, after the Trojan War, Hermione married Neoptolemus, the son of the Greek hero Achilles. Orestes later killed Neoptolemus and became Hermione's second husband. |
Anyone want to take a stab at who Orestes and Neoptolemus could be in canon? I'm not going to bother because of what I read in a book recently.
| QUOTE |
Hermione Granger In an interview with Time Magazine, J.K.R. said that she was "surprised" no one is usually concerned about Hermione. J.K.R. informs us that she considers Hermione to have a lot of "vulnerability." J.K.R took Hermione's name from Shakespeare's "The Winter's Tale." This is a key clue! It is highly likely that Hermione's fate will parallel that character (more twist endings).
--p. 383 Ultimate Unofficial Guide to the Mysteries of Harry Potter by Galadriel Waters |
I've never read this work of Shakespeare's so I had no idea of what would happen to Hermione. Now anyone who is a slacker knows where to go when you have famous book/play problems and no time to read...Sparknotes!
| QUOTE |
Taken from http://www.sparknotes.com/shakespeare/wint...characters.html
Leontes - The King of Sicilia, and the childhood friend of the Bohemian King Polixenes. He is gripped by jealous fantasies, which convince him that Polixenes has been having an affair with his wife, Hermione; his jealousy leads to the destruction of his family.
Hermione - The virtuous and beautiful Queen of Sicilia. Falsely accused of infidelity by her husband, Leontes, she apparently dies of grief just after being vindicated by the Oracle of Delphi, but is restored to life at the play's close.
Polixenes - The King of Bohemia, and Leontes's boyhood friend. He is falsely accused of having an affair with Leontes's wife, and barely escapes Sicilia with his life. Much later in life, he sees his only son fall in love with a lowly Shepherd's daughter--who is, in fact, a Sicilian princess.
|
Though I'm a H/H shipper through and through, I'm convinced that Ron and Hermione are going to be a couple in OotP. IMO, Leontes is what Ron *could* be and Harry *could* be Polixenes. Any thoughts?

dejamevivir (nyd)
padawan leia
May 22 2003, 10:21 PM
Well, I'm no Greek or Shakespearian scholar, but I do know quite a bit about these two stories. In "A Winter's Tale," Leontes disobeys the Oracle, which states that Hermione is innocent of adultery. Because he dephies the Oracle's orders and is about to disown Hermione, she becomes a statue- in other words, petrified. Leontes realizes that he, in fact, was wrong, and by the play's conclusion, she comes back to life because of his realization that she was faithful to him. If Harry doubts his relationship with Hermione, perhaps she is an easier and more vulnerable target for Voldemort. However, Ron seems more like King Leontes....jealous and fast to judge.
I've been trying to figure out the whole "Orestes" story - I plan on reading the trilogy of stories that involve him during summer vacation. As a junior with finals in a week, however, it might have to wait!
If you have a "Reader's Encyclopedia" by Benet, you might be able to find some more info - they're really informative and helpful! Look up Hermione -it explains her role in both works.
Hope this helps!
*Padawan Leia*
Oy! Angelina
May 22 2003, 11:37 PM
first off I shouldn't try answering these sorts of questions at 2:30 in the morning.
That said, before I go off and running with this thread I think it should be mentioned that we might be reading a little too much into the name usage. True, JKR does like to have meaning to her names for characters but for the time being they mostly seem to be puns on their personality. Perhaps Hermione is revealing of some future outcome in the books or perhaps its just a unique name inspired by one of the greatest British authors.
Okay, now to have fun with this. I think that the Ron/Hermione/Harry thing will become a problem later on. It seems pretty evident that Ron likes Hermione with a lot of cannon to support it, mostly in book 4, but book 4 also has a lot to suggest Hermione's feelings for Harry. Such as how she was spending all that time with him when he and Ron were fighting, how she kept cheering him on during the triwizard competition even though she was sort of with Krum, or how she kept talking to Krum about Harry so much that it made him jealous of the pair's relationship.
That being said, whether or not Hermione and Ron actually date, I think Ron will become jealous/threatened by Harry's presence in the trio. Ron has already shown a fair amount of envy towards Harry and all the "blessings" he has in his life and Hermione would just be one more thing Ron would think Harry has that he doesn't.

It seems to be almost a trend in every book since books 3 and 4 that something comes up that divides the trio and leaves one of them on the outs.

If all things are fair than Harry should be outed in book 5, maybe because Hermione and Ron are a couple. maybe not. Whatever the case, this looks like a brewing source of friction between the friends.

Now while Hermione may like Harry that doesn't say anything for how Harry feels about her, particularly when his best friend's feelings are involved.
In all actuality, I see this as one big headache for the golden trio centered around Ron's insecurities, Hermione's feelings, and Harry's loyalties as there's no way all three of them are probably going to be happy with the way things seem to be set up.
You don't need literature to tell you that the great divider is always a girl, it's just a popular story about actual events where only the names are changed.
Ariadne
Jun 8 2003, 03:10 AM
just some more random facts about the name Hermione if anyone is interested. I'm not sure if they relate in any way at all to the books but
Hermione is derived from the Greek name Hermes, Hermes was the god of speed and good luck, protector of travellers, theives and merchants (?) - i don't see how any of that fits in.
Hermione is a greek name meaning "of the earth"...
emma2004
Jun 8 2003, 11:46 AM
| QUOTE (Ariadne @ Jun 8 2003, 07:10 AM) |
just some more random facts about the name Hermione if anyone is interested. I'm not sure if they relate in any way at all to the books but Hermione is derived from the Greek name Hermes, Hermes was the god of speed and good luck, protector of travellers, theives and merchants (?) - i don't see how any of that fits in. Hermione is a greek name meaning "of the earth"... |
well shes a protector to keep thiefs away..dracos a thief...and the hand that harry played w/ in COS is a sign (i believe) and remember draco wanted to touch the hand that harry touched...but lucius told him not to.
LadyGranger
Jun 16 2003, 09:59 PM
I have posted a reply to this kind of topic before, and this is what I found:
"Hermione" was a character in Greek mythology who was loved by two men. She was the daughter of Helen of Troy and Menelaus. These men (Orestes 2 and Neoptolemus, the son of Achilles) fought terribly for the love of the beautiful Hermione (Harry and Ron?). Orestes 2 was killed by a snake. Could this mean that either Ron or Harry will die at the hands of Lord Voldemort (whose symbol is a snake?). Hmmm…
I don't know if my other post is still up, so I decided to post it again.
XOXOXOXO LG
HarrynHermione4Ever
Jul 12 2003, 05:30 PM
um... im completely confused by this stuff but if it points to a H/Hr ship then thats good

,
Chelsea
P.S-I found out that theres 1 more R/H shipper among us

My Mom

i was like u dont even kno anything about hp.

me & her
were arguing

all night lol
Scrivenshaft
Jul 12 2003, 06:04 PM
I'm sure I've said this before, but Hermione is far and away my favourite character. And I do worry about her - I worry about the Viktor thing (I think he's too old for her), I worry about her and Ron - especially what the arguments could be doing to her underneath. She's very much shrouded in mystery; she doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve so much as Ron, we aren't always as aware of her feelings as maybe we want to be.
She *is* vulnerable, as JKR says. Her self-worth is based on grades. She has a real opinion on morals, cf. SPEW, but occasionally her inflexibility is of detriment to her. I worry that this is going to bite her in the arse later. She's also very sensitive - far more than I think we get told in canon. She's a 15 year old girl - who *wasn't* sensitive at that age?
I don't think she'll be able to cope well with a relationship in 6, as I've said in other threads - Harry is going to be a huge source of anxiety for her, and I think she isn't comfortable enough in herself to hold her own in a relationship. I often wonder if Hermione has a case of self-dislike underneath.
One thing's for certain - Hermione will be one hell of a woman and a force to be reckoned with.
Sorry for the long post! I do worry about my literary parallel (or at least I was exactly the same as her at that age)

Tistytosty xxx
Ice Phoenix
Jul 13 2003, 01:29 AM
Erm... I know a fair bit about Shakespeare because of my GCSE coursework, and the Winter's Tale thing. Well, think about it this way. It's a complete Ron and Hermione clue. Jealousy consumes him, and he can't think clearly. Then the lowly shepards girl could well be... Luna. All the signs are there, lowly being humble. What else is Luna?
This is a pure indication of a Ron and Hermione relationship, though i'm sure JKR will twist it somehow (she always seems to).
N.B. Seeing as *** could be seen as character bashing and get the thread closed, I know I have to use his name. Just if you're wondering.
Kitsune
Jul 19 2003, 08:21 PM
Mod Note: From here there posts that have been merged from the original topic called 'Greek Hermione, Dicussing the Hermione of Greek Legend - Mirtilla 24/9/2004Hey all! I read somewhere that Hermione's name was taken from Greek Mythology. So naturally I was curious and looked up a bit on 'Hermione' and I found some hopefully promising H/Hr material.
Here's the definition I found on Hermione...
The daughter of Menelaus and Helen. Before the expedition againgst Troy she was engaged to Orestes. Later her father engaged her to Neoptolemus. In the duel that ensued between the two suitors, Neoptolemus was killed.
Now after this I looked up on Orestes and Neoptolemus... And what I found on Orestes seemed a bit similar to Harry. Here's some of the things I thought were similar to Harry.
1. Orestes father was murdered by his mother and her lover. This brings to mind how Harry's father was murdered by Voldemort.
2. Orestes' sister, Electra, sent Orestes away to protect him. Similar to how Harry was sent away to protect him from Voldemort.
3. Orestes killed his mother and her lover to avenge his father causing him to be plauged by furies until he is redeemed by Minerva. Sort of like how Harry is plauged by guilt of the deaths of Cedric and Sirius.
4. Orestes is involved with a woman named Hermione. Now you all know Harry knows a Hermione as well, even though he isn't involved with her like that...yet.
The only thing I found major about Neoptolemus was that he was unusually creul, was some kind of king, and kind of stole Hermione for his wife. I'm not sure if that connects with Ron or not though...
But I also found a passage from
The Epistles of Ovid talking about Hermione's unhappiness with Neoptolemus and her wish for Orestes to rescue her. (Rescue? Sound like Harry to anyone?

) She goes on to talk about how Neoptolemus (Pyrrhus) has forcibly confine her, contrary to the honour and justice. And how she resisted with all the force she could exert so wouldn't be detained. And how she call upon the aid of Orestes wishing he would come to rescue her from Neoptolemus.
So does anyone see a bit of an H/Hr resemblence or is it just me?
Kalie
Jul 19 2003, 08:27 PM
I do see a bit of a resemblence, but JKR has already commented on the origin of Hermione's name. She said that Hermione's parents, being dentists, wanted a name that sounds intelligent and Shakespearian. Thus, Hermione's name is derived from the character in Shakespeare's "A Winter Tale."
Kitsune
Jul 19 2003, 08:39 PM
Hmmm..... Guess I'll just have to look up on Shakespere then.... Oops...
Kalie
Jul 19 2003, 08:46 PM
Oh, that's alright! Very good at looking things up though. I believe this subject was touched upon in the "General HP Discussion" board, but I'm not 100% positive.
diam0ndgrrl
Jul 19 2003, 10:21 PM
| QUOTE |
| Hermione - The virtuous and beautiful Queen of Sicilia. Falsely accused of infidelity by her husband, Leontes, she apparently dies of grief just after being vindicated by the Oracle of Delphi, but is restored to life at the play's close. |
That's Hermione's character in "A Winter's Tale." I really don't see any significance to her character in HP. I think JKR just thought the name was pretty.
Kalie
Jul 19 2003, 10:25 PM
I really don't see much significance either. I don't believe that HP's Hermione would do something like that. But, that's just me
sinta
Jul 20 2003, 06:29 AM
hmmm. i don't think a winter's tale's hermione did anything wrong. she was falsely accused.
(am i off topic?)
i think JKR probably just thinks that name's pretty though.
Jessica Leigh
Jul 21 2003, 07:18 AM
I wish I could remember where I found it, but I read that one of the two guys that fought over Hermione was killed by a snake........
*cough*Voldemort*cough*
Alexandranl
Jul 21 2003, 07:22 AM

Shhhhh, please, let me enjoy Kitsune's explanation, don't spoil it by "A Winter's Tale"! Hehe, by the way, Kitsune, great research! And an excellent educated guess on how it relates to Harry Potter! Too bad JKR already told us...ah well, I like your idea better anyways! Hehe! Going to go, mingle with my thoughts and dream of how true your theory could be
Impressive!!!!!!!!!!!
~Alex~
ricelius
Jul 22 2003, 08:21 AM
Good research!

And I do think it's important. After all, J.K. Rowling is known to be subtle, so would she just blurt out that she got Hermione from Greek mythology? If she did, she would basically confirm, or at least help immensely, the H/Hr ship, something she seems
very keen on avoiding.
Kalie
Jul 22 2003, 10:30 AM
I know, but JKR has already stated that Hermione's name was "Shakespearian." Her parents wanted an unusual name. And the only Shakespeare play that feature's the name Hermione is "A Winter's Tale." Hermione's name was not from Greek origins( at least "this" Hermione wasn't ).
ricelius
Jul 22 2003, 10:52 AM
http://www.burrow-jp.com/library/original/...0todayshow.html| QUOTE |
Blonde kid dressed as Harry Potter: How did you think of that name Hermione? J.K. Rowling: Hermione...it's a Shakespearean name. I got it out of Shakespeare's "The Winter's Tale." I just thought it was an unusual name. If I'd known how difficult people would find it to pronounce, I would have called her Jane. |
All right, I get the point. What I meant was that JKR getting the name from Shakespeare doesn't necessarily mean she didn't think of Greek mythology as well. But that last comment about Jane defeats that argument... Unless JKR's being extremely cunning...
solemn pessimist
Jul 22 2003, 11:00 AM
I really don't think there's much to the mythology of it. JK does do a lot of research, but I dont think she researches as much as we (as shippers) delve into it. I think she was serious in saying she just picked the name.
ricelius
Jul 22 2003, 11:06 AM
| QUOTE (solemn pessimist @ Jul 22 2003, 09:00 PM) |
| I really don't think there's much to the mythology of it. JK does do a lot of research, but I dont think she researches as much as we (as shippers) delve into it. I think she was serious in saying she just picked the name. |
You're probably right - she can't possibly research every name she comes up with. But it's neat nonetheless 
I like your avatar by the way - I once had that lamb walking all over my screen
reemy
Apr 6 2005, 04:39 PM
Mod Note Approved Topic. There are other threads that deal with this topic or with related topics:
- Hermione in Greek Mythology, Solution to the eternal love triangle? (For mature discussions only)
- HP Characters' Names - taken from myths
i was doing some research on names a few days ago and i thought i'd look for 'hermione'. as most of you already know 'hermione' is an ancient greek name, but i've learned a bit more and i thought i'd share. I don't know if this is where i should be posting this and i don't even know if this has been posted before but it got me so excited that i couldn't resist posting. sorry mods if i did something wrong. and to all of you sorry about my english (not my mother tongue)and it's a bit long. well here :
Hermione :
Daughter of Helen of Troy and king Menelaus of Sparta. She married Achilles son Neoptolemus, but when Orestes killed him in a fight over her (she was originally engaged to him) she became his wife in stead. Together they had the son Tisamenus, who was to rule in Mycenae. so we already know who neoptolemus and orestes are... harry and ron. (that's what i think anyway). only before this i was kinda worried since i didn't know who's who exactly. but then all i can say from this is : harry and ron are probably gonna fight and it's actually very likely that ron will turn his back on harry.
well just as i said, i did some research on neoptolemus and orestes to try to figure out who's who and here is what i found on orestes and i think he has too many common things with harry for it to be a coincidence, here :
ORESTES: Son of Agamemnon and Clytemnestra, who revenged his father's death seven years after Clytemnestra and her lover Aegisthus had murdered him. Being just a boy when the tragic incident happened, he was sent away by his sister Electra, and grew up under the protection of King Strophius of Phocis, who was also his uncle. Electra kept sending him messages from Mycenae where she encouraged him to avenge his father, and after consulting the oracle in Delphi, he went ahead with it.
His best friend and companian was king Phocis's son Pylades, who married Electra after helping Orestes kill his mother and her lover. Because matricide was a serious crime, Orestes was persecuted by the Erinyes and had to flee from place to place. He ended up in Athens, where he was brought before the Aeropagus and Athena. He was aquitted but kept being stalked by the Erinyes. Not until he brought back his sister Iphigenia was he left alone by the avenging goddesses.
Orestes then ruled Mycenae, and through his marriage with Menelaus and Helens daughter Hermione, whom he won battling Achilles son Neotolemus, he united his kingdom with Sparta. Together they had the son Tisamenus. and here is what they say abour
neoptolemus :
Achilles son with Deidamia of Scyros, who was one of the men that hid in the Trojan horse. After the war he got Andromache as his slave and from them the Molossan house originated. Neoptolemus married Hermione and became the forefather of the kings of Epirus. He was killed in Delphi, where he was honoured with festivals every eight years.so i don't know about you guys but to me it's pretty clear that IF JKR has based her characters on these greek characters then orestes= harry and neoptolemus=ron.
of course JKR is not copying the whole hermione/neoptolemus/orestes plot but if i try to understand/guess, what i found must mean something like this :
hermione is very likely to be paired with ron in the beginning (let's say that would be in their 6th year) then suddently she realises that the man she truly loves is harry.....i really don't know how things will happen but one thing is 'mostly' sure she'll end up with harry.
we all know how jealous ron is of harry and i think he won't take it well at all. and maybe ...just maybe that would be his turning point...? well they would fight over her i think.
neoptolemus was one of the men in the trojan horse...does that mean that ron will betray harry?
and maybe after betraying him he'll help him in the end?? we cannot know. but i'm sure one of the trio at least will die in the end, and it's very likely to be ron from what i've read...what do you think?
oh and of course you've all noticed the 'avenged his father's death' in the orestes paragraph

youhooo isn't it a good sign???!!!!!
anyway i don't really really like the turn in the story if it goes this direction... i like ron after all and i like the trio even more. i'd rather have a trio with harry and hermione together...hum but i guess that's impossible. ron has already been showing interest in hermione and harry is so..shy ...reserved...? he needs something big hitting him for him to see that he loves hermione (if that is the case), so what better than pairing hermione and ron togother in the beginning? and since noone dies with no reason , i think that ron's death will be important in the plot AND in harry's relationship with hermione.
what do you guys think???
brokenheartz
Apr 11 2005, 06:37 PM
That made me think back to a while ago when I learned about that in school, all I could think about was the H/H/R triangle. I think that's really possible, actually, because we know JK for doing things from out of the blue or doing the exact opposite of the obvious. BUT since we know that, she might do the obvious because we are making judjments on things that we think are going to happen based on 'proofs from the books'. So she just might do reverse reverse psycology and then that would happen. Does that make any sense? Sorry if it doesn't...but yea, Ron is just that kind of person, if you push him past the limit:

So yeah. Nice research!
themysciran_princess
Apr 14 2005, 09:40 PM
It is definately similar. I agree. I don't know if it will be such a drastic turn of events...but I do think you're right when you say R/Hr might attempt 'something' in the 6th novel (whether Hermione accepts, or if it's just Ron attempting and Hermione turning him down...I don't know). Either way, I do think this would be a big enough event to get Harry's attention. (I swear, that boy must be sleeping half the time!)
-Casey
hpchik
Apr 24 2005, 05:20 PM

I agree and just want to point out the hippogriff. The greek symbol for it is "love!" Now harry and hermione both rode buckbeak 2gther! Also, in the 5th book, hermione entered the room that harry was in. Funny, the hippogriff was there..yet again.
Eristoff-icE
Apr 25 2005, 03:13 AM
I find myself in concordance with your words too. But I hope Hermione doesn't start anything with Ron (even if she ends up with Harry in the end)...
IMO, the big problem is:
Ron --> Hermione, check
Harry --> Hermione, ?
Hermione --> Ron, arguable but possible
Hermione --> Harry, most probable but not yet confirmed in any way
But if JKR decides to play a little "greek tragedy" on us - God, I hope not - Hermione and Ron will have something going on (

) before both of them realize they aren't meant for each other...
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.