I first read the Harry Potter books in 6th grade. I was awestruck at how the book combined action, humor, and darkness. Since then I have read all the books and only one thing has never changed: Lifelong H/Hr shipper.
Now in high school I've received a lot of flak from all kinds of crazed He.... I mean opposing ships (from the FBT Herons to the insane yaoi fans). I mean I've literally got bombed (aka yelled at) for being stupid and not being canon. I'm not a bigot, I try and respect other ships but when stuff like this happens you can't help being mad. I can only think of one reason: They're jealous.
I mean we come up coherent, and readable, theories. WE make some of the best d@^n fanfiction. And WE obiviously aren't people who take things from face value like the FBT (future brain trust) Herons. Now i have known some Herons that have been ok and could string together a sentence without the words uhhh, like, or you're dumb in there.
I feel really proud to be here a Portkey with fellow minded Harmonians. I truly hope JK changes the story cause Hermione's character suc... well it wasn't as good as the past. So I leave you all with a quote from M:TG (Magic:The Gathering to all nonplayers)

"Let the pyres of the unbelievers light our way"-Razia

i have to say the reason why i think H/Hr is the most hated is becuz in the back in their heads, always, there was a feeling that this wud b the ship. It was so perfect they had so many moments where they were scared it just might actually happen.

also a friend of mine once told me the reason why they didnt like h/hr bcuz it was toooo idealistic. the couple is the most idealistic couple in the series. mayb thats one of the reasons why i like h/hr it can b thought of idealistic but to me more importantly their relationship is REAL.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I've seen post where they say the most ridiculous things, up to and including denying the validity of canon . Why else do you think they rely on interview quotes? Not to mention that they rip us off because they can't think of an idea by themselves.




They are condescendeing, aren't they? Have absolutely no idea why, though.



I've seen this as well. That H/Hr could work but it won't happen because it could take over the story (and the One Big Horrible Waste of Fiction won't?). Another reason I've seen is that these books are marketed towards children and therefore a complicated romance (like H/Hr) would not be fitting. This shows how little they know of canon. H/C and H/G were essentially physical relationships and she's been implying love triangles since Book 2 and crushes since Book 1. And of course the children that read the first book are no longer children. They deserve a romance that doesn't insult their intelligence.

It's true. Everywhere I turn, I have to put up with Herons and the surrounding rotten ships. And I think you hit the nail spot on - they're jealous, cause our ship isn't the most obvious, but it is the best developed and it's so much more interesting and intriguing than R/Hr. If you ask me, we have a lot better chance than them, regardless of what HBP said or did. Pumpkin pie, anyone?

I totally agree with the jealousy theory. I think H/Hr is the most hated ship because they are just afraid that it's going to happen.

Oh lovely we are idealistic ?? How come ? Because the Hermione/Ron is not a idealistic one ? It is very idealistic to believe that Ron and Hermione would ever end together when you see how they interact together: bickering, nagging, never making a compromise. And that show me that they the Heron are the one that are idealistic in believing that a couple ,which is bickering like 2 fifth year sibling and never seemed to make any kind of compromise, would be able to have a happy adult marriage and found a family.
Harry care for Hermione from the first book to the last one.
For my mind I believe that they take us as a kind of menace because they had read the HPB too and Hermione and Ron arent together are they ? There is no line in which Hermione is confessing her love to Ron or vice-versa. There is no line telling us that they are dating. And Harry and Ginny broke off so the only ship that hadnt been written is H/H and they are not ready to even think that this might happen so they preferred to take the IoD like a canon fact and are afraid that our ship is the real one

I think this is a dangerous thread that has the potential to degenerate into Heron bashing which will then cause lurking Herons to Harmony bash.

Having said that I think the main reason the more irrational Herons etc dislike us is simple.

They desperatly want their fairytale OBHWF ending and they secretly know deep down that if any ship is gonna ruin that for them it'll be ours. They hate us for wanting that ending to be taken away from them.

There's no reason for them to lash out against us so strongly unless they feel threatened by us. And I think they do, I think they always have. For good reason, too -- it's THERE. So the fear of it actually happening is probably one reason.

Another reason is probably because we hate their ships and we're not afraid to show it.

As for jealousy... I don't know, but personally I think we've got the better moments... more meaningful, etc. etc. And don't forget the movies.

they feel threatened by us. they do why else do you think they bash you. our ship make the most sense. We all know from the first book, harry has been the "natural" wizard, the one who above all is powerful. We all know Ron from the beginning has been the best friend of harrys, and has been very exceptional in every class and spell performance. Hermione Well, shes always been the brains , the one with power above most, she's irritated by harry in the 5th and 6th book as he because of equal with her even if it wasn't on fair terms. with r/hr there 1/1 million chance is it going to last. Now Harry and Hermione got about a 80-90 percent chance because they both are in the same pod. The love they've had has been there since the first book , I don't care how many people have tried to prove this point, i don't care how many have said its not going to happen, the thing is, if you don't know already , you will see, Harry/hermione is going to have to happen, Harry needs her to survive in the wizarding world, as she needs harry for support, harry is more on a mature form with her as well there about the same. I have nothing against Ron , but he really doesn't deserve a girl like her, there is Cemistry but its not the long lasting kind.

I think it's because deep down they know we are right, and the only reasons they can come up with is because jk said so, and the so called love/hate relationship is cute. All I have to say is the relationship isn't love/hate that would be D/HR not R/HR <Their relationship is opposites attract, and an abusive relationship <all the signs are there.

I agree they do feel threaten, they should be.

BloodyRegrets, lurved the banner very very much!
herons think that we are the last ship that is going to a happen in hp series. they hate us with passion 'cause our h/hr are the ones who are more closer than r/hr. i strongly believe that theres still hope. we are the herons' neck-in-neck rival and harmony is a big threat to their ship. and also chocos too. i seriously think that they are joining forces to bash and destroy our very strong ship. the so called love/hate relationship sucks for ron/hermione, IMO. they are fighting over nothing...they will be shipwecked....i knew it....

I think you're right. I mean, in the RHr fanfics thre's also HG, or vice versa. Of course, I might be wrong since I don't usually read RHr and HG fanfics.


Anyway...my idea on why we're hated by Herons and Chocos too is because even if HHr doesn't happen, the relationship between them is more beautiful than that between RHr or HG. I mean, really, their friendship evolved so nicely and naturally, that the other shippers are probably afraid this friendship will develop into something more...

And that's perhaps the main reason. That HHr could happen. The relationship between HHr grew one step at a time resulting in a very tight friendship, while RHr stayed the same. We can even say it got worse with all the bickering and fighting.

Er, I'm new here and I may be stepping on a few toes so my apologies beforehand, but it isn't the jealousy thing, it's the same reason everybody vehemently argues their own ship and puts down the other: you believe that ship is the right one.

I actually came here for some of the great Lily/James fics (which is the equivalent to a gen-shipper, apparently) so I feel I'm fairly unbiased when I say the reason that H/Hr often gets a bad rap is because some people say stupid things and those stupid things get bandied about like everyone said them and everyone believes them.

They aren't threatened or jealous...or not in anyway that's seriously affecting their arguments, they just believe they're right just as you do.

I don't know. I've heard the same stupid stuff being said on the other side and don't hold it against all oposing shippers that I come across. There must be something else.

I think they are just bitter that H/HR spoils canon for them.

I'm trying to see things from The Other Perspective here so bear with me.

Imagine you ship, say choco. :shudders: Now your reading the books, looking for any sign of your ship (or even Ginny for that matter) and all of a sudden you get a H/hr moment. "Ok, I guess that could possibly be construed as platonic." Then BAM! another... "they're just friends, nothing to worry about..." and so on throughout the whole book. Pages and pages of h/hr interaction while Ginny turns up for say half a page where Harry says two words to her then turns back to Hermione.

I know I would be annoyed. I'm trying to enjoy the plot, the gang are in the DoM running from Death Eaters say, then out of nowhere Harry goes crazy over Hermione getting hit. Umm...hello? Ginny has a broken ankle! SHE is the damsel in distress here! SHE is you supreme loved one who you are meant to be worrying over right now! I mean, d*mn it you haven't said three words to her the entire book and now you don't even care when she's injured?

So the choco chipper gets annoyed, chucks her book out the window, and goes online to rant about it. When she comes across a H/HR shipper whos squeeing over the exact same moment, whats going to happen? They're already p***ed, so they vent on you, you get defensive, quote all the moments to them, which gets them even angrier. So the arguement continues till it degenerates to simple name calling and bashing of characters ala "Well your just stupid then for even seeing H/HR in canon when it sooo isn't there" and "your ship sucks, Hermione sucks, Ginny RULES!!!"

I say, since we are on the other (imho better) side, it is our duty to patiently weather the storm, as the heron/chocos now FINALLY have some canon moments to share with us (ala HBP) and proceed to rub it in our faces.

(I just hope their not setting themselves up for an even bigger embarrassment come book 7 )

NOTE: The example given is not meant to insult any Heron/Choco shippers, or imply that they come across or interpret the books in this way. For all I know you probably have your own canon quotes, since many events can be interpreted in several ways. My example is based on my own experiences reading fanfiction where I start what I believe to be a gen fic, and suddenly H/G pops up. I try to ignore/skim over those moments but they do annoy me and hamper my enjoyment of the overall story.

Again, I meant no offence! We're all HP fans here!

What's your point?



If you think we get a bad reputation because of some bad apples, you're wrong. We're so hated, we can't afford to have bad apples. The truth is Harmonians who aren't even in the shipping wars get frequently wanked.



Have you ever seen the way they debate? They fall all over themselves just to come up with an argument while ignoring H/Hr ones. They keep doing this until they drive off all the Harmonians and they congratulate each each other on a job well done.



There is something else. They just can't stand anybody that has a different opinion.



Funny, I thought we were the ship that put too much into shipping. There is a very strong current of Weasley love within the Choco/Heron camp and any statement that points out a flaw in their characters is considered Weasley bashing.



Why bother? The canon that the Mo'Rons got in HBP is so horrible I don't know why they would even rub it in our faces. As for them being canon-smacked, you get what you put in.



I don't read fanfic, but I've heard this before.



Yes we are.

For one thing, it could be threads like this where we bash them calling them jealous and implying that they are stupid. I feel everyship has the people who hate that ship and every ship has those people in it who hate every other ship. We are high on the list because we are right up there with Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny, yes we do have plausable explanations and yes we have our moments. They do too. We shoud ignore any and all flames because if any ship has to derogate another to prove they're right than perhaps they should take another look at the ship they support.

Well, not to bash any R/Hr (since I was one before HBP), I know how they thought prior to HBP, and I have to say, the main reason for a lot of the arguing was the fact that someone would come on, and post a WOS worthy comment against someone/character/etc. Then the person attacked would be in a bad mood then rant everywhere he or she went, looking for support, and then pretty soon you know it's the American Civil War all over again. So it all goes back to who fired on Fort Sumnter.

So what are we? Union or Confederate?

Probably Confederate, because we would like our shipping rights to ship what we please without someone telling us we have to ship something.

So... anyone know any good Dixie tunes?

Oh and those of you who point to the fact the Union won the war, think about this: You can't elect a president nowadays without getting at least 1 of the Dixie states, and they usually all vote the same way, most of the time. Then you have all of the romanticized pro-Dixie movies and stories these days... let's see, we've got: Gone with the Wind... North and South... Gettysburg... Gods and Generals

Of course, most romanticize both sides.

Union won the war, Dixie won the aftermath.

(If you can't tell I'm a little sarcastic at the moment, then you might need to do a reread)

~Salamon2

As originator of the thread I feel I should emphasize some things:

1. I do not attack without reason. If you have been and innocently post your ideas then you get blind sided by about 8 people you get a little peeved. And boy, I'm not saying that all Heroine addicts (my term for zealot Herons they called use delusional I responded I know it seems petty but derrogatory but fight fire with fire.) are dumb but these guys or girls couldn't string together a coherent thought. It was funny, sad, and anger inducing all at once.

2. I do not hope this becomes a flame inducer. I merely wanted to know the reason why everyone seems to dislike us.

3. I do not hate Heroine addicts. A couple of my best friends are Heroine addicts but they at least listen or call me dumb.

Thanks for all the view and replies guys. I was just curious.

Keep them coming though I like people's opinions (well except the... well you know.)

If that is in response to me, this wasn't intended directly towards you, it just seems that some of the replies and many topics here are beginning to bash other characters and other ships. Which, oddly enough, those things seemed to pop up everywhere after HBP...hmm but thats another story...

Good Lord, if H/Hr were written like H/G or R/Hr I would have been just as cheesed off. Seriously, what do they have to hoorah about. R/Hr STILL are not a couple, Harry dumps Ginny after a torrid and short lived snog fest and Ginny is turned into the one of the most obnoxious characters ever....
She is the bitchy Gin Gin Binks of annoying characters.

It was sooo unbelievably pathetic.....oy!

I know some good natured Herons that thought H/G was ridiculous even though it helps their own Good Ship. They sidekick with Chocos because it is a way to keep their ship afloat with Harry with Ginny. But now that it actually happened in canon....we were all gobsmacked.

There is A LOT of Weaslely love. God forbid you say one damning word about the Weasley Clan. Sheesh....

I don't care, it wasn't HBP (even though it was the icing on the cake of stupidity) that made me dislike Ginny. I NEVER cared for her. I always took her for a spoiled brat and behold, she is.

Ron? I like Ron...but I'm not a Ronpert fan. Oh and that's another thing....There is a HUGE amount of Rupert love on many of the HP sites too. And a ton of Emma and Dan hate. I can't believe it. I know this is different because they are actors but you can't say a negative thing about Rupert either....oh but D/E should die horrible deaths (I'm not kidding...I've seen so much of that on Muggleshite...when I used to go there). I adore D/E and they are treated with such nastiness on some HP sites/forums....but Rupert is a God. Mmm...okay.

I don't visit other HP sites because Harmonians are treated so foul. Even if we're not discussing shipping, we get ridiculed and harrassed, etc. It's not worth my time. I'm not trying to convince anyone of my ship. I like it and don't care if anyone does...regardless of whether it becomes canon or not.

I have to admit, that the H/Hr forums have FAR better discussions and theories about HP. Mainly because I feel Harmonians *ahem* read between the lines and dig deeper into the books for meaning.

Frankly, I feel sorry for Herons and Chocos, if this is the best Jo can come up with in regards to shipping and romance....they just got the biggest wankk of all. It's pathetic. Had H/HR been written like that, I would have thrown my book in the rubbish bin.

Well, all I can say is when HP7 comes about and H/Hr become canon.... I'm just going to smile while all the Herons/Chocos piss and moan. I won't even pull a "I told you so" ....I just don't care and won't stoop to the level of juvenile behavior that's run rampant in the fandom since HPB/IOS.

The Harmony Ape can just throw poopp at them while eating Pumpkin Pie with LOTS of whipped cream.

Heather

I didn't imply that they were jealous and stupid. Go look at the debate threads here if you want to see for yourself.



Well this is quite vague.



We do have our "moments", but they don't. You'd think after all this time they'd come up with a consistent set of arguments, but they haven't.



I agree. I have no reason to troll ChocoHeron sites and those that troll our sites are Mo'Rons.



I don't know the shipping wars started. I would actually like to know myself.Frankly, if that's the way it started, they deserve what they get.



Yup. Herons and Chocos don't like any contradictory ships.







For the fandom to accept the final pairing(s), there will have to be a consensus between the two major ships.



Yup. We won the aftermath.



I think you brought up a great analogy.



Bahing or critcizing? There's a difference between the two.



No, these existed before HBP.

Dan and Emma hate? What on earth is that about? Unless their onscreen chemistry is just that threatening. Which it probably is, because you can't buy that kind of chemistry. Box office gold.

Pam

I don't really care if they bash us, so long as they don't bash us in our forum, actually. But be that as it may, I do agree that Heron-bashing is a no-no.

I mean, I'm no hippie (as some of you might have noticed) and I'm not nice to visiting Herons in this site. If you ask me, I don't like them being here, and I'd really want them to go away. Their presence in this forum irks me, but for all my territorial b*tchiness, I don't go around general HP forums picking fights with them, and there's even one forum where I get along with a few of 'em quite well... NOW, after all that preamble, I just think it's really superior-like and rather narrow-minded to say that Herons are immature simpletons.

Like, come on... listen to yourselves... we're "better than them"? They're "all third graders"? That just sounds so awful. Right now, I don't know a single Heron that's in grade school. Everyone I know in real life that's involved in the shipping debates are all college graduates. Among my group of ten best friends, only one of my best friends is a Harmonian. The rest of them are Heron. My Harmonian best friend is a doctor. I work in a publishing company as an editor. Out of eight Herons, 3 are doctors, 1 is an Engineer, 2 are well-placed financial analysts, 1 is a lawyer and the last one is a Home Maker with three children.

I don't want Herons being in this forum, but do we really want to come off as elitist snobs? Worse, elitist snobs deluded into thinking that we're smarter because our ship is "better than theirs?" Why don't we Harmonians just eat olives from the balconies and throw the pits at the intellectual plebes we call "Herons" down at the rafters, just like the Romans (or was it the Greeks? I forget...) used to do?

Food for thought!


This is the reasoning I totally agree with, with respect to the thread's question.


I love that! "Box office gold." That just calls it perfectly.

Two words: They're Scared!

We are their biggest threat and they know it that's why they hate us so. They can't stand that we ship H/Hr because many of them are intolerant.

They're scared.

*Melissa*

Why thank you. And the next time all of the Harmonians meet up with the Herons, we can all wear shirts that have the stars and bars on it and have a H/Hr moment in a circle in the center. That would be enough to keep the Herons' quiet... well for maybe a minute.

(satire yet again)

~Salamon2

I mean no offense to anyone by posting this but since we're now the Confederacy of all ships here was the national anthem of the Confederacy

[b]Dixie

Oh, I wish I was in the land of cotton,
Old times there are not forgotten,
Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land.

In Dixie Land, where I was born in,
early on one frosty mornin',
Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land.

I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand
to live and die in Dixie.
Away, away, away down south in Dixie.
Away, away, away down south in Dixie

It kind of symbolizes the way we are cornered but still take a stand. Sorry I'm about a day late and a dollar short.

Yes, I can just see the promos:

For every Confederacy, there needs to be Harmony to support it.

or

Harmony is needed to bind the Confederacy together!

(I'm quite enjoying our satire/analogy)

~Salamon2

Before HBP came out, every ship (except Harry/Cho perhaps) was delusional. Why only Harry/Hermione shippers were being called as delusional? Even now after HBP, only we are being called as delusional, not Harry/Draco, Hermione/Draco, Ginny/Draco, and not Harry/Voldy.

In the past, I was so upset that why other shippers hate us so much, why we are singled out to be hated and why on the earth HHr shippers and HHr shipping sites deserve all the flames and trolls from the oppositions. Now I know better. The only reason I can come out with is that they are jealous of Harmonians. They felt threatened by Harmonians.

IMHO, they must be feeling insecure and inferior about their ships (honestly, people call themselves the Good Ship…Doesn’t mean to offend. I am just puzzled). So they ridicule the possibility of HHr (come on, we ship HHr for a reason and we are not illiterate). So they insult HHr shippers only when they are so generously accepting those slashy fics (I felt sad for Harry when he had to pair up with Snape, Draco or Voldemort or OMC while Ron gotto pair up with Hermione). So they were over-joyed when they knew that the author appeared to take their side.



I noticed that as well. Years before, after the COS movie came out, I couldn't help but notice that the muddlenet.com (some one-stop HP news centre) excluded some news of the Harry Potter actor, Daniel Radcliffe. Although it was not a big deal or significant, for a "great" site like muddlenet which updates everything and anything from JKR interviews to some producers' birthdays, it considered abnormal. First time, I found it okay. Many times, you'd find it weird as this practice didn't live up to the reputation of that news centre. It was quite obvious for someone like me who used to travel in between those HP websites for whole day.

Read between the words, I felt that website favored Ron so they like Rupert more (or vice versa), and they really love the RHr pairing. It seems to me that they deliberately ignored the flames on the actors namely Dan and Emma (since Emma is always closely linked to Dan in the media and some of the RHr don't really love Hermione or Emma). They really love Rupert or Ron that they literally blame Dan and Emma for everything that Rupert didn't get. The webmasters of those sites didn't help things if they ignored these. Strange enough, they didn't issue warnings or ban those flamers while they jumped on the feet when they saw HHr posts. Double standards.

Ironically, those same people labeled us, HHr shippers as Ron-haters!

I don't hate Ron. I like him to some extent. I so don't want him to die even though I have a feeling he might die. I don't want people say HHr (if) happens because of Ron's death. I want them to see the love between them.

My favorite on that is when you go to like that Thread on FAP, "Can't Stand Movie!Hermione," where they blame Emma for everything they do not like about "Pink Power Ranger!Hermione" and for taking all of Ron-Rupert's best lines. Now I sincerely doubt that Emma has anything to do with how Rupert is told to play Ron at all, and while she can say what she would like to do, the director tells her how he wants the scene played given the script as it is written. Now if Emma was the director or the screenwriter, then I could see that their complaints had some validity. But, since she is neither, nor likely to be in the last three movies why do they think Movie!Hermione is ALL HER Fault? On the other hand dumb!rubber faced!sidekick!Ron is not Rupert's fault in any way. It is everyone else, starting with Emma, being mean to him. On the same vein, why is Dan getting top billing, since they only go to see Rupert? Rupert needs to be in it MORE, and Dan and Emma's scenes need to be cut back greatly to make it so. And they do not think the last book was called Ronald Weasley and the Half-Blood Prince? Well, the whole series SHOULD be called The Weasley Chronicals, like DUH!

The funniest thing about it is, as far as having an academic/theoretical knowledge of their character is concerned, Emma seems to have put the most thought in it. Cauron asked the trio (frankly not sure whether he asked it from all the characters) Emma, Dan and Rupert to submit their interpretations of their characters, in writing. Dan submitted a page, Rupert's report was late and Emma submitted ten whopping pages! Lol. Dan later exaggerated the number to 12, 15 and then 20, but Emma insists that she stopped at 10, and that her handwriting was huge. Still, it's saying something. She has a lot to say about her character; has many observations of it. I'm not saying that this proves she's right, but it definitely means she's put a lot of thought into being Hermione--that, and the fact that she once told the press that she loved her role as Hermione very much, that she would be jealous if anyone else took it.

A thought I had on this question was that they don't understand why we stick with our ship even though we are supposedly "sunk" because of HBP and the IoD. We will defend our ship to the end since it's an ideal we believe in regardless of what JKR writes. And largely, I believe they may hate us because not only do we stick to those ideals, we also have sound, rational arguments to debate with and a good foundation to stand on which I think scares them. And sometimes, folks hide their fear through anger and acting out....hence the rude behavior and wanking.....

Thats a good point. Maybe they hate us cause they think we should've admitted defeat by now. The thing they don't understand is that we really can't.

Speaking only for myself here. I can't give up on Harmony cause it means giving up on Harry Potter as a series I admire. It means giving up on JK Rowling who has been my role model ever since I first read the series and found out what her life was like while writing it. It also means giving up on the idea that someone has been writing an amazing love story for all the world to enjoy and learn from. For me that's a lot to give up on.

Honestly I think that if bk7 proves us wrong I will still visit Portkey. Cause even though JKR might not see it Portkey has shown me that I'm not alone in my appreciation for what true love can be and even though it was unintentional JKR still wrote the foundation for an amazing love. We'll just have to ignore books 6 & 7 if that's the case and it'll probably make all the other HP shippers hate people like me even more.

Strange, but I never got the impression that H/Hr was hated, except by certain circles of the fandom, whom I believe are not necessarily the majority but are very vocal.

This is all making me flash back to the Angel fandom, when a lot of people believed that Cordy/Angel was a hated/unpopular ship, which is absolutely not the case. As a C/A shipper for years, I can attest to the fact that there is a very large online C/A fanbase. But we were perceived as being a hated/unpopular ship because of a very vocal and extremist section of the fandom. They weren't a majority, but because they were so vocal, they were perceived as being one.

This is the impression I get of the HP fandom as well (or any fandom, for that matter). Whoever yells the loudest gets the most attention. If there's anything I've noticed, it's that H/Hr fans are very impassioned about their ship and aren't about to back down from defending it. As a result whenever H/Hr and OBHWF shippers meet, it can get ugly. I personally find that these debates tend to end up circular and ultimately pointless--neither group is going to sell the other on their ship, and it seems nobody will back down until the other group says "you're right." Which, IMO is ridiculous, since I believe there is no concrete "right" or "wrong" in literary interpretation. This is not to say that I'm not weak and don't occasionally participate in said debates. If I was smart I'd avoid them. But I'm not always smart.

I don't think it's so much a matter of being "threatened" by H/Hr so much as the fact that H/Hr enthusiasts aren't going to back down or say "you're right." With 99% of ship wars, IMO that's what it comes down to--the need to prove that your side is "right." I don't know if I'd say H/Hr is the most "hated" ship, but a lot of the animosity is probably derived from the fact that we are a very large and vocal group and that the diehard H/Hrs aren't going to just say "We're wrong, long live OBHWF!"

I personally don't get in fights with R/Hr or H/G shippers very often--the only time I do is when they either bash H/Hr or try to "convert" me. I made some waves here with my belief that H/Hr is probably not going to become canon (which does nothing to diminish my love of our ship; it just means it's non-canon, which I'm franky fine with. As other H/Hr shippers have said, I'd rather the ship be non-canon than be portrayed unfavorably in canon). I think I get along (mostly) with R/Hrs and H/Gs because I do acknowledge the canonity of their ship, even if I don't ship it. I'm generally of the "believe what you want... as long as you don't force it on me, we're cool" persuasion. I do like to discuss HP though, and as long as debates stay civil, I find them quite fun and entertaining.

Good Lord, if H/Hr were written like H/G or R/Hr I would have been just as cheesed off. Seriously, what do they have to hoorah about. R/Hr STILL are not a couple, Harry dumps Ginny after a torrid and short lived snog fest and Ginny is turned into the one of the most obnoxious characters ever....
She is the bitchy Gin Gin Binks of annoying characters.

It was sooo unbelievably pathetic.....oy!

There is A LOT of Weaslely love. God forbid you say one damning word about the Weasley Clan. Sheesh....

I don't care, it wasn't HBP (even though it was the icing on the cake of stupidity) that made me dislike Ginny. I NEVER cared for her. I always took her for a spoiled brat and behold, she is.

[/quote]

Ginny is very bitchy in the 6 book but I think it caues JK whats Ginny to be like Hermione or Ginny is mad at Hermione caues EVER with H/G togth THERE sill WAS H/HR in the book like when Harry dump Ginny He LOOKED at HERMIONE (pg US " It's been like ... like something out of someone eles's life. these last few weeks with you said harry "but I can't ... we can't .. I've got things to do alone now. " " but you have been busy saving the wizarding world ' said ginny" " Ron was now holding Hermione stroking her hair and her crying on his shoulder ..."
and on pg 592 Hermione waits TILL Ginny laves and says "Harry I found something out this morning in the librany..." but she did not say Ron and Harry or Harry and Ron just Harry"

[quote name='Salamon2' post='264869' date='May 1 2006, 07:20 PM']
Well, not to bash any R/Hr (since I was one before HBP), I know how they thought prior to HBP, and I have to say, the main reason for a lot of the arguing was the fact that someone would come on, and post a WOS worthy comment against someone/character/etc. Then the person attacked would be in a bad mood then rant everywhere he or she went, looking for support, and then pretty soon you know it's the American Civil War all over again. So it all goes back to who fired on Fort Sumnter.[/quote]

I don't know the shipping wars started. I would actually like to know myself.Frankly, if that's the way it started, they deserve what they get.

[[/quote]

Me 2

There was nothing in HBP that made R/Hr or H/G look good. As for comparing HP characters to Jar Jar Binks, I think Ron is a more apt comparison . Ginny's waaay too bitchy.



Oh, you'd better believe it.



I agree that H/G and R/Hr are alligned because of convinence. But that's just like H/Hr and R/L. I have also noticed that a lot of R/Hr shippers seem to hate H/G. There seems to some intelligence in the Heron camp, but not enough intelligence to realize their own ship sucks just as much .



You can bash Percy, and maybe some of the others, but Ron and Ginny are strictly off limits.



I actually didn't care much for Ginny either way before HBP. But now, .



I've actually seen that before. It's ridiculous how much both of them get,but you won't see or say a bad word about Rupert.



The funny thing is that Herons and Chocos actually love this stuff, and the few that don't are quickly silenced. Me thinks they're a little insecure.



As I said before, you get what you put in.



I hope the Harmony Ape doesn't mix the two up.



Why can't we criticize Heron?



I don't like them here either, but I don't see why we can't think of them as immature simpletons when that's exactly how they act when they come to this forum. They should remember that they have to remain silent and anything say or do will be used against them.



A good brain is useless unless you're willing to use it. They are some Harmonians that are still in grade school and they do better arguments than Herons twice their age. Do any of those Herons you speak of have a good reason as to why they ship Heron?



I don't particularly like eating raw olives. But I can certainly find a subsititute!



Mmm...



So true. No matter how much they downplay us, we're still a threat.



WB is promoting H/Hr first and foremost. R/Hr is simply there so there so they can hedge their bets.



It's quite telling when Gryffyndor/Slytherin ships get more respect than us.



If we're such a small part of the fandom, we should be nothing to worry about. But since they do care about us , we must be bigger than previously thought.



I don't venture into the the realm of fanfic, but that's just downright hilarious. But so is dumping Harry with Ginny.



You mean mugglenet? I've haven't seen that much Dan hate over there, but the Emma hate is definitely obvious.



As much as I want to see Ron get the Darwin Award he's been working so hard for, I don't think I could stand that either.



Strangely enough, I agree with the Herons and Chocos that Movie!Hermione in PoA was Mary Sue-ish. What I find hypocritical is they're slower than molasses in saying that HBP!Ginny was a Mary Sue. I don't see why they're complaining about Ron's character. He's actually more likeable in the movies. Maybe they don't want to be reminded of how much of a useless idiot Ron is.


I'm too tired to put a reply right now. Watch this space for updates.

Edit: Finished part of my reply.

Finished som more of my reply. This thing's longer than I expected.

Finished my reply for now.

As an outsider here, I think I can offer some perspective on why many people - within the HP fandom and even some outside it - are annoyed by H/Hr shippers. One reason is the elitism -

Another is the ridiculous statemetns made by some fans - making derogatory comments about Rowling's personal life, comparing yourselves to slaves and persecuted religious groups, etc. (If your reception by others is analagous to that of any religious groups, it's that of the Scientologists.)

It's the fact that you claim that the outcome of a romantic subplot will be the primary determiner of the quality of the books - if H/Hr is written they'll be good, if something else is written they'll be bad, and who cares about Snape and Voldemort.

The largest contributor, though, has to be the way you treat those who disagree with you. When JKR doesn't write what you want, she's suddenly a crap author who doesn't know how to manage a relationship - despite being a billionaire and married with children.

Moreover, most of the world would find it somewhat laughable for people to depend on a fictional relationship for their ideal of romance. I personally, for example, don't read most books - even ones involving romance - to see a picture-perfect relationship. I read them for the flawed, messed-up, human relationships - some where people screw things up and then, with work, determination, and forgiveness, manage to fix them; some where things just go wrong and don't get fixed; some that deal with the average, everyday struggles of normal people. If you want epic romance, read an epic romance. (I recommend Beren and Luthien in Tolkien's Silmarillion, or if you've got a taste for poetric, the verse version in The Lays of Beleriand.)

I like R/Hr because I think that, underneath the jealousy and insecurity, they truly care about each other, and should be able to work things out after a bit of growing up (some of which they did in HBP). I don't think that the canaries/fighting/snogging other people is a romantic idead, and I'm certain JKR did not intend to write it that way. (Hermione's disastrous date with McClaggan and Ron's difficulty in ending his relationship with Lav-Lav are clear indicators of this - could Rowling be saying any more clearly "these characters are going about things entirely the wrong way, and these are the consequences"?) It's two people who are attracted to each other, care about each other, and don't have the self-esteem to believe the other likes them back messing things up and, by the end of the book, reaching some level of understanding and resolution.

Just one final comment: the relationship a person enjoys reading about does not necessarily resemble, in any way, shape or form, the kind of relationship they would like to be in. I wouldn't want to have a genocidal mass-murderer after me, but I still like reading about Harry fighting Voldemort.

Slightly editted
r_d
Mod

Primal fear, I'm not talking "They secretly know we're right." fear. I'm refering to something deeply seated in the human instinct. The best description I know of for this is "That which you cannot conquer can conquer you."

Often and repeatedly we have received abuse, ridicule, and had our mental faculties questioned. (Kind of reminds me of Harry in OotP) I, personally - before becoming involved in shipping, received a death threat for sugesting that Ron's behavior during the Yule Brawl was anything but 100% fueled by his red-hot burning desire for Hermione. We endured this treatment for years. Then came HBP followed by the IoD.

I doubt many Herons would still ship if they had been subjected to what we have. Yet here we are battered, shaken, but far from beaten.

BTW WarriorEowyn,

I want to apologize in advance. I know the following part of this post sounds like I'm mocking you, and that is not the ends I am pursuing. For a while I've been trying to find a way to express an idea. Formulating a response as I read your post was the first time the concept took a form I could properly express. If you feel any indignation I will understand. I also hope you believe me when I say that I am sorry.


WarriorEowyn you managed to illustrate, better than any before you, the biggest flaw I see in the R/Hr romance. The fighting and dating other people developes the conflict in their relationship well, and of course the resolution to said conflict remains to be seen. However, there is something vital missing.


emphasis mine

Why "think", why not "know"? - Stories are based on a goal, conflict, resolution model. The resolution comes at the end, so we have not witnessed it. The conflict, as I said, is well developed. But where is the goal established? Where is the scene that shows us Ron and Hermione would be happy together? Why should we feel they belong together?

I have looked for such a scene myself, and have never found a convincing quote, even from a Heron. It is left to the reader to assume they are right for each other.

We all know what happens when we assume don't we?

When I first stared to read Harry Potter (Two weeks before HBP came out) I was Lily/James all the way I didn't care about any other ship. But in terms of fanfic's there's not a lot of really good, long Lily/James stories out there that don't turn James into some poor love struck idiot and Lily into some stuck up snobby b- er witch.
So I went looking for another ship. I tried them all, I've read just about anything out there. I've read Draco/Hermione, Fred/Hermione, I've even read some icky ones like Snape/Hermione and even Voldemort-Tom/Hermione. And I can understand the reason why they ship their personal ships.
I asked them why, they answered and I understood their reasoning.
But I never understood Ron/Hermione. I saw it in the books, I really did I took what I read at face value, seeing the immature jealous behaviour of Ron as affection for Hermione, I wasn't sure she felt the same way but I saw it. But I never understood why Hermione would like Ron. I asked some of Heron's (is that right?) and all they seemed to be able to do was the good old URST standby. I never got a good reason. (I heard better reasoning from the Voldemort/Hermione shippers)
I was very much like Hermione in school, I was into books, had a few good friends, I'd rather read then go to a party. I had great grades. I also knew people like Ron, people who put off their work and complained when their grades weren't very good. I have nothing against them but I couldn't see someone like Hermione falling for Ron. he's insensitive and she's so compassionate that she will stand behind people (or house elf's) that everyone else ignores. She withstands ridicule to stand up to for what's right (Remind you of anyone coughHarrybook5cough) While Ron is to worried about people ridiculing him. She's driven and Ron seems Ok with just coasting by. as a driven person, myself I couldn't stand him.
So maybe the reason we HHR shippers are so hated by the RHR is because they see all this. and they just want to take things at face value. That's their problem. And if JKR is just as unamagative as they are I think I've been giving her too much credit as a author.

That's the thing I love about Harry and Hermione we don't have to look beneath jealousy/insecurity to see that they truly care about each other. That's right there on the surface and in your face. I think that underneath all of their platonic friendship there is attraction there just waiting for the right circumstances to burst out. We've had hints of it in all the books so far and I'm hoping quite optimistically that it'll finally come fully to the surface in book 7. That's the great thing about Harry and Hermione, if the attractraction was there nothing else need change about their relationship, they don't need to work things out as R/Hr do.

The fact that everyone basically separates everything up into ships in the first place is the problem...Once people start stereotyping people into groups things have a tendency to get nasty...I think WarriorEowyn(and don't take this as a personal attack, I might sound like my feelings were hurt or that I'm on the defensive but I'm really not! I'm only using it as an example) showed just how wrong you can be when you generalize everyone’s opinions based on a few. When you group people together and give them all shared traits...hence JKR biggest down fall with the IoD she allowed herself to place the opinions of the "group" and their missplaced opinions on other groups run rampant...



Not at all a fact! I'm a H/Hr shipper and if the relationship between H/Hr had taken place in the same mannor as G/H did I would have though the quality of the books was bad...The way it was written sucked...regardless of who they were...R/Hr sucks...not only cause I don't think that their relationship is a good one...but because you the reader have to make half of it up...they don't have a freak'n relationship! When it suddenly becomes my job to make up a relationship between two characters that are supposed to be the obvious relationship...I would put that down as bad writing...I'm not the writer I'm the reader! The same thing goes for G/H it was written all off page you have to assume that they actually talk about things...and that they have this wonderful emotional connection, you have to make up things in your head, again how can something be considered great writing if the writer isn’t actually writing it?


Just cause you're rich and are married with kids it doesn't make you a good author, nor does it mean that you have an understanding of love and relationships(I'm not saying that she does or she doesn't I really don't care I have no opinions on her I don't even know her so I don't make assumptions either way when it comes to her personal life...her professional one though, and how she deals with her readership as an author is another story)...sorry but that's a fact...Just cause it's marketable and people buy it doesn't make it brilliant writing...Now I'm not saying that it's bad...but I'm also not saying that it's great...and there is so much more to it then that fact that people buy the books...If an artest makes a painting and it doesn't sell or becomes popular at the time...but then all of a sudden in a different time...that painting becomes popular and is figured to be a master piece and is appricated for being different for the time that is was made...is the same thing...the quality of the work hadn't changed over time...peoples oppinions and views over time did.



Another miss conception...no H/Hr shipper that I know has ever said that the relationship was perfect...The Fact is that H/Hr aren't in a relationship...and neither is R/Hr for that matter...how do you know that R/Hr wouldn't have the perfect relationship once they did actually start one? I however based my belief in H/Hr because I don't think that JKR showed Hermione as liking Ron at all...did I miss interpret what she was trying to write? Maybe I have no problem additing that...however she seems to have a problem admitting to the fact that if I did "miss read" it was only because she wrote it that way...and to admit this would be to admit that she didn't write things clear enough....obviously things are so firmly divided within her fandom for a reason...and god forbid it be due to the way in which it was written, no...not at all it must be that So Many of her fans simply made it up because they all thought it would be better that way! Come on Give me a brake.



I completely agree hence the reason why grouping people and forming opinions about them is the reason why everyone get's pissy at each other...it's the reason why I'm POed at JKR...and wont be able to look at her in the same light as I did before...She let the views of others determine that way in which she views her fans....She sees her own fans in terms of the groups now...You are doing the same thing...I'm a H/Hr shipper and I have no thoughts as to what kind of relationship you would like to be involved in based on what you like to read and what you don't....I like reading about bad relationships or Bickering couples just as much as the next person, but I don't like R/Hr...why? Because I don't think it's well written and I have been saying this since the 4th book...therefore all your...it's a fact talk...and all your assumptions on how H/Hr shippers act are wrong simply because I am a H/Hr shipper and I most definitely don't fit the mold that you described in your post...It's a stereotype that comes out when you fit people into groups. And that’s the problem with all shipping, for those who seem to ship for sport. Or for those who wont just let people ship for personal preference.(again this goes for all sides)



Am I an elitist to think that my Ship is deeper and more meaningful then R/Hr...Or the fact that think that the way she wrote H/Hr relationship (meaning character interaction) is better quality writing then with way in which she wrote G/H...I don't think so at all...I don't put other people down for not having my opinion...I don't go to web sites that go against what I like...you will never see me posting on a R/Hr or G/H site...I have never done such a thing before HBP and wont do it after the fact...In fact I think that 50% of the time when people come to the conclusion that someone is an elitist it's because they aren't comfortable enough with their own self and their beliefs...they seem to be the ones setting standards and limits...As Eleanor Roosevelt once said "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent".

And the fact is that people feel and say things like you're dumb or you're opinion it stupid on both sides...it's not one sided and it has nothing to due with what they believe in but simply is due to the fact that they aren't intelligent enough to make there point without bringing in personal opinions. It's all the person and their own personality...and there are equal amounts of bad traits and poor behavioral skills on all sides.

Stereotyping is the main reason that there is some much conflict. And is the reason why many will take offense to WarriorEowyn's post. Anothing based on a stereotype is wrong all it takes it one thing to provide the exeption to the rule to make claims false. But I don't dare assume that you meant to say that you buy into those stereotypes at all...I'd rather hold the assumption that you're better than that.

ETA:
But just a note...a friendly hint WarriorEowyn (again I'm not being defensive...Just helpful)


Generally when you're talking about a group of people...the word you...as in "you people" tends to generalize everyone together...placing limitations and leads to a real sense of the same close mindedness that you spoke of in the beginning of your post when you compared the H/Hr people to close minded Scientologest...Now I'm no Scientologest...but just because Tom Cruise thinks that he can go around saying that people don't know what they are talking about and that he's right and they're wrong doesn't mean that the entire population of scientologest feel the same way.

What elitism? H/Hr has been constantly attacked since its start. If you want an example, go to FAP, look at the can't H/Hr thread and compare it to the can't stand R/Hr thread. Please get your facts about about the fandom before you make statements like this.



Thank you for your expert opinion. I guess the comparison is wrong because its really Herons that are the persecuted?



I heartily agree that the books would be a waste of my time if H/Hr didn't happen, but not necessarily for the reasons you think of. The way the trio plus Ginny is written, Harry's and/or Hermione's character would have have to take a fall, and that's exactly what happened in HBP. There is more story than the plot. If the characters are not engaging, then it doesn't matter what the plot is. That doesn't mean that Heron and Choco are compatible with the plot, they're not. R/Hr has no purpose in a story about Harry, especially if he doesn't feel anything about the couple. H/G is also pointless saince any intimacy would have to divided between Hr and G. There is no way that Harry's attention could be exclusively Ginny's, unless of course, Hermione was out of the picture.




I don't know where you're getting the idea that we're intolerant. I don't like D/G, or any other Slytherin/Gryffindor ship, but do I go around telling them that they're wrong?



This is just too good. We shouldn't critique Rowling on what she wrote? If what you're saying is true, then the whole enterprise of literary analysis is invalid. This is just a false appeal to authority to shield yourself from any criticism.



Thank you for providing another fallacy. This time it's a hasty generalization. You don't have any basis for this claim. Stepping back for a moment, what's so intrinsically wrong about somebody creating or experiencing their ideal romance in a work of fiction?



Thank you for sharing your preferences, but they have little bearing on this discussion. I also like H/Hr because they have flaws, but both are able to like each other despite them. I don't like R/Hr because they an't even get along as friends, much less lovers.



I would say the same to you. If you you wish to read a pedestrian romance that does not have any depth and relies on the reader to assume things that writer should put in, go ahead. Just remember that the argument works both ways.



This is purely fanon speculation. There is no evidence that R/Hr care any more about each other than H/Hr, and you consider H/Hr "just friends". There is no way around this. Either it's a trio of friends, or a love triangle; but you cannot have your cake and eat it too.



I have two questions here:

(1) If you don't like the way this couple is developed, why do you ship them?

(2) If you don't think Rowling intended it to be written this way, then why did she write it? After all, she's the author of these books.



If this is the way they handle their relationships, what makes you think they'll be any better when they get together? It is too much to hope that they won't repeat their mistakes when they seem to have learned nothing from them.



Again with the fanon speculation. You have no undeniable "on screen" evidence that this is the case. After all, do you know without a doubt why they don't have the self esteem to reveal their true feelings?

This is ridiculous, after reading that person's post, I'm appalled, really. Who brought anything up about religion at all? And WE'RE the only ones who have anything negative to say towards another ship? I came to the fandom recently, and as soon as I came, no one knew me, but I was an H/Hr shipper -- and I immediately saw the wonderful way we were treated -"delusional." Please. I read just as well as any R/Hr, and H/G does -- just because I see something different, doesn't make me delusional. Does it make you all close-minded? Decide for yourself.

"The ways we treat you"?! Yet no-one on the opposing side says anything remotely bad? And yet H/HR's are the only ones to be called out?

There are entire sites, multiple, JUST for insulting H/Hr's fans. JUST for insulting us. What did we do to deserve it? Believe in something we saw? I'm not saying we're completely innocent, but no ship is -- at all. Yet we're the only ones insulted the way we are? We're the ones who have sites dedicated to insulting us, more than any other ship. We're blind, unintelligent, "elite", crazy, arrogant, we look "too much into things". I can't believe we are seen as the ones who see JKR as a horrible writer, when alot of R/Hr's read the books know she didn't write it wonderfully, and say that's fully intended. We are always expecting the best from her, the ultimate twist, the great book to finish off the series.

You're are stating absolute stereotypes in your post, it's dripping of them, and I could go to an R/Hr site and state some of the stereotypes of them as R/Hr's [and H/G, etc] but I won't. Why? Because why should I go to an R/Hr site and post there? Or at least what is pretty much an OBHWF site. I won't. I read, to see both sides. And yes, I really look at both sides. I choose H/Hr, for me, they are canon.

And yes, in a book that places true, undying love on the pedestel it should be placed on, with Harry's ability to love, I fully expect the "love/romance" parts of the book to be EXCELLENT, to MAKE the books, and to absolutely make the ending. And I don't think JKR is a 'crap writer' at all. IMO, there's a reason she writes the way she does.

I'm sorry, but as an H/Hr I feel that we have not deserved as much ridicule as we have gotten, and I was not going to back down, no way.

If you're so confident in H/G and R/Hr, stay at your own forums, focus on them, don't come here and try to convince us because we've heard it all before, and we ship H/Hr.

--& I like H/Hr because I think that, underneath the banter, worrying, excitement and lightheadedness, they truly care about each other, and should be able to work things out after a bit of growing up. Anything can go both ways, it's all up to interpretation. We'll know after Book 7.

Thank you POCKETS, HERMIONES HERO, and LUNALUMOS.
I was going to reply to this unbelievable post but you have already said everything that needed to be said much better than i could have.

I have been a member of this site since 2003,and been a H/HR shipper since the books came out.
From the very start i have been abused by R/HR shippers.
I used to post on MUGGLESHITE,but gave up from the avalanche of abuse and name calling.

This site is the most tolerant HP shipper site on the net.
EVERYBODY is welcome as long as they are respectful.
The same can not be said for that other site.

QUOTE(WarriorEowyn @ May 13 2006, 11:27 AM)

The largest contributor, though, has to be the way you treat those who disagree with you.

This has to be a sick joke.
I tell you what WarriorEowyn you are a R/HR shipper right.
You try going to MUGGLESHITE and posting half a dozen pro H/HR entry`s.
It will certainly open your eyes to the way H/HR posters are treated.

The torrent of abuse that will be directed at you will be like NOTHING you have ever experienced in your life.
Certainly like NOTHING you have experianced here.

Have a nice day.

H/HR FOREVER

Clive

First off, I want to say I'm not tearing you apart, I'd just like to add my comments, and will do my best to moderate any "elitism" you claim that most H/Hr shippers have.



I wouldn't lump them all together. There are quite a few on this site who are able to get along with some R/Hr and H/G shippers who come here, even when in the middle of debating, they stick strickly to the subject of the debate and try their hardest not to degrade themselves to the name calling which is quite predominent elsewhere. The same goes for most of the R/Hr and H/G shippers who come here. Most don't want to get into a fight, yet there are always angry passionates on both sides who do exist here. I think for the majority of people here, elitism doesn't occur, however I will not deny that elitism doesn't exist within H/Hr. However I wouldn't say that it's a problem H/Hr has alone. Over all I'd say it's a problem with every idea ever created by mankind. Political Parties are run by elitists, Wars are run by elitists, and societal change is run by eltists, just for a short list. So I'd say yes there are some H/Hr elitists, however you cannot deny that there are R/Hr elitists. I think the problem is that the elitists are the most vocal usually, they try whatever method they use to get their POV across, and as in real life, that's usually by teasing, name calling, and unplaced anger.



I tried this once when I first got into shipping and quickly abandoned the analology due to it's stupidity because you can't make any parallels until we know the ending and are able to look back on it as history.



I don't think every H/Hr says this, I think rather the elitists say this and since they're the most vocal, it's their message that gets across. As with politics in the US, only 40% of the country ever votes, and they're the elitists, and usually they're split in half, so that leaves 60% of the nation undecided, not voting, and unvocal. But just because they aren't vocal doesn't mean they agree with everything that's going on.



Quite agree that perfect relationships make me vomit. Those are marysues and their garystus, which often occur in fairytales. Let me say this Fairytales are good for children, but adults should get over them. In truth, I will honestly tell you that H/G had all the earmarks to me of this type of relationship to how it was written. There were no internal conflicts, and by that I mean disagreements between the two characters. Anything Ginny said, Harry agreed with, anything Harry said, Ginny became convinced of as gospel, and the fairytale kiss that was many sunlit days. The girl is pretty, popular, spunky, the guy just like her, both are perfect, happy, wonderful, and all we ever see them do is kiss and talk about trivial items. All of this to me gives me the earmarks of a fairytale, unreal, romance. No offense intended, just expressing my opinion on how H/G was written, not on the ship itself (although I was suaded to dislike it due to people trying to convert me to it when first joining the fandom, they told me I had to think this way or I was an idiot, not the way to win people to your ship).



All perfectly good reasons for yourself to ship R/Hr. I will not criticize you for believing what you believe.



Quite perfectly true.

Now I hope I'm not perceived as attacking you. I try to hold my middle ground. Yes I believe in H/Hr. However I was a R/Hr H/L person prior to HBP. The reasons I no longer ship them are due to the way they are written. I had expected more adult behavior by now, and personally found the jealousy issues to be childish and immature and beneath their good senses.

Have a nice evening.

~Salamon2

I think they hate us because we aren't humble.

Have you popped over to the D/G forums lately? I went over there a couple weeks ago to see if they had any convincing arguments, but what I found there surprised me--threads like this where they actively mock themselves. The R/L folks are more subtle about it, but they make fun of themselves too.

The H/Hr folks, though, treat shipping like Hermione treats an Arithmancy assignment--a problem to be solved with a straight face and the application of overwhelming brainpower. And this bugs the OBHWF majority, which knows that the other ships are quite capable of keeping themselves in line. "How dare these upstarts act like their ship might actually sail? We'd better put them their place before they start giving everyone else dangerous ideas." Even when we call ourselves "delusional", we're being sarcastic--we don't really think we're delusional at all, we're just taking their label and making it our own.

So we get H/Hr bashing.

I don't think that we are the most hated ship around.

I do think that some of us may get that impression if we have only heard (or only choose to give weight to) the rude fringe elements of other ships. I firmly believe that the majority of most ships are decent people.

Similarly, having seen the rude fringe element of THIS ship in action more than once, I can understand why others who have only heard those rude people (or only choose to give weight to their mad, embarrassing rantings) think that they represent the whole ship.

There's only one way to stop this, really. Behave decently, in a way that reflects well upon your shipmates. Do not initiate or respond to baiting or rudeness from other ships, do not condescend to them; and if you see a shipmate doing so, jump on them - publicly - before anyone else can. It's us they are tarring with the same brush, after all. Those in glass houses, and all that.

And those of you from all ships who think that you are being clever by saying "but they started it!" (or variant thereof) - kindly go throw yourselves in a sewer. If you're going to be horrible, at least had the gumption to admit that IT'S ALL YOUR OWN DOING. No one is making you respond nastily.

Personally my most hated ship is Harry/Snape -

I mean I can kinda understand why Snape might want Harry (afterall who wouldn't) but why in the heck would Harry ever want Snape??? I don't get it and it makes me sick just thinking about it.

Well it's not like the Harmonians are the wet blankets of the world that deem everything has to be interpreted as Oh! That's too easy! or Pssshhhh, come on! It's harder than that!. I can speak for myself at least and say that I'm not the type of person that NEEDs to have to work my brain for pleasure in every situation. But since it's already been quite established from the get-go that these books are mystery/suspense/clue intense, what else would you expect? Mediocrity looks really bad if you don't live up to the standard that you've created as an author. That's the big difference in my opinion that differs ourselves separate from the rest of the Potterverse shipping base. We aren't just analyzing, theorizing, making tabs for nothing,...especially not for something as fickle as a reason that we always have to win or in order to not put ourselves down. We noticed a pattern from these books and we've come to expect that 'nothing really is what it seems' and be prepared to 'expect the unexpected.' Thanks to Rowling, we are nothing but the result of her own work.

I don't think I'm in the defensive when I call myself a Harmonian. I see no shameful or humiliating aspects of it, nor do I find it a self-defending tactic to save me from hurting myself as to make myself look stronger.

I think it just goes back to natural tendencies for society to look at deviants as abnormal, and the majority as normal.

The majority is usually wrong though, and that's what's keeping my spirits up.

Firstly cookiemonster, there's no need to be so harsh. Jane said that she thinks that we aren't the most hated ship. I can also vouch for this person that she may not be a Harmonion (I don't knwo for sure), she is not a Heron or choco.

This is the sort of thing that gets us into trouble IMO. Accuse first and deal with it later. I don't mean to jump down your throat Cookiemonster but i think you have had a go at her for no reason.



Indeed it's not, but I do think that Jane did point out that it's not just limited to this ship. And if not, I'm fairly sure that she would agree with me.



Indeed, but then how many thought out comments have drawn our ire as well?



This is exactly the very thing that Jane was pointing out. As a matter of fact, i have found Jane's arguments quite fair and well thought out, when talking about Harry and Krum's ethical sense and how Ron and Hermione don't make a good couple.

Instead of just reading and responding with your own beliefs on our ship, you assumed that she was a Heron and Choco and chose instead to deal with her argument instead by telling her to stop being a liar.

The thing of it is, I agree with Jane on this. It's not on one side only, but if we get a rude post, ignore it, or respond with a well thought out and canon supported argument, don't respond in kind.



Well that's simply not true. Yes we do get mocked and insulted quite often, that is the nature of what we are involved in, but we also do the mocking and insulting as well. How many times have I heard a sarcastic remark from my fellow Harmonian, heck, even I've done it from time to time, when responding to a rediculous comment made by Herons or Chocos.

In the end, it doesn't matter what side we're on, there is no need to jump down anyone's throats.