MOD NOTE: merged related topics:
Harry didn't want to show Hermione his Terrible grades - did he want to impress her?
H/H 'moved together instinctively' in Grawp + Umbridge scene
Hermione's solidarity with and loyalty to Harry - OOTP breaking into Umbridge's office

- PK mods


Hello. I'm kinda a newbie. I was reading over the tons of h/hr moments in the OOTP, and I stumbled upon a little moment....

Chapter:15
Title:The Hogwarts High Inquisitor
Page:311


Harry, Ron, Hermione, Fred and George are talking about possible O.W.L.S. grades. They say T's are the worst you can get. The moment is "Harry imagined trying to conceal from Hermione that he got all T's and immediately resolved to work harder." Is it just me or does it seem that he kinda wants to impress her?

I did kinda notice that! There were other places throughout the books like that, but for the life of me, I can't remember where.

Good observation!

Hmmm...interesting. I don't think that's occured to me until now! Great job!

*goes back to pg. 311 in the ootp*It does look like Harry is trying to push himself to meet someone standerds hmmmmmm.

Nice catch! And welcome to the boards!

AML
~*kt*~

I noticed that on my third reading too Welcome to W.I.T.S or Pumpkin Pie as we know it! *hugs*

I didn't notice that, thanks for pointing it out!
I'm a newbie too. Yay.

I noticed it on like my 4th reading. Welcome aboard.

I noticed that on my first reading But... it could be interpereted as H/Hr as well as R/Hr. They could say that Harry didn't want Hermione to get nagging on him again. But so far, I think he liiiiiikes her ^.^
[I'm aware I'm supposed to be away, but I haven't posted my last post yet ]

Dani

Aw, I noticed it too! Harry wants to meet Hermione`s standards, how cute.

Of course he does... is it just me, or does our ship float a little higher in the water with each discovery?

AML
~*kt*~ (who's in a strangely good mood)

I think that he tries to impress Hermione without realizeing(sp?) it. He wants to appear smart for her, how cute. Hey welcom to the boards.

I think it's more that Harry doesn't want to disappoint her more then wanting impress her. Harry seems to value Hermione’s opinion highly.

Thanks for the welcomes you guys! Aww...once again Harry sub- conciously tries to meet Hermione's standards. Kinda like saying "I can be smart too! We can be smart together!"

Aww... smart together... and then we can be smart together when we're older... - Sorry, just in a VERY *silly* (can't think of a better word) mood this evening.

I think Harry is rather smart...he just needs some help from Hermione sometimes. Ron doesn't really care that much.

I noticed the statement on my first reading of the book and this is what my shipmate Turambar and I realized. Btw, if anyone cares; I'm Lleyki on the COS forums. Anyway, it seemed to me that in OOTP, Harry started developing this thing about not being a failure in Hermione's eyes. Now we all have realized that dear, sweet Harry can be a little slow at times and the poor boy does have alot going on right now. As such, he won't analyse why not failing infront of Hermione is so important to him. He'll just see it as I don't want her to know I failed. The first sign of this was the moment after they discovered who was made prefects. Doesn't anyone find it interesting and wonder WHY Jk felt the need to highlight Harry and Hermione being alone? Then she makes a point of Harry not being able to look at Hermione. Why? He didn't make himself not be a prefect and the only times before that Harry has had problems looking at Hermione is when he's lying about something. You got the sense that he felt like he failed her and she feels so sad but doesn't know what to say. In terms of writing that was a very beautiful, sad and tender moment. Okay I've rambled here long enough.

harmione22, you make an excellent point. I really like your interpretation of the prefect scene.

Good point harmione22, Harry doesn't look at Hermione during the prefect scene, just at the floor. It shows he's a bit disappointed with himself, about how he may not be the same in Hermione's eyes anymore. She seemed so happy when she thought Harry was a prefect.

What a great point! Just realized that he doesn't look at her. He probabaly feels disappointed in himself...but our Hermione loves him no matter what. Even though Ron and Hermione were prefects, Harry and Hermione spend the most time together.

I was reading Order of the phoenix again and I picked up a cool h/hr sentance......



It's when Umbridge is carried away and Grawp chases away the other centaurs and harry is asking Hermione how they get to london.


Pg 670 Fight and flight UK version

Squeee!!!!! How good is that!
Even though they are in the forest and everything.....how cute is that sentance! Or am I just too romantic?

Marshmallow

Yeah. Recognised that too!

The word is instinctively..... Hermione knew that Harry would protect her... and Harry knew that she has to protect Hermione no matter what.... are they in love or what? This is so cool..... more revelations in the book passages please.... this is so interesting.....H/Hr RoX!!! Good going marshmallow33!!!! Toodles!!!!

i posted that sentence in the book discussion thread, under h/hr moments the other day, so i have already seen it, i noticed it the first time i saw and, it' great isnt it?

this isn't that squeee-ish but...

He thrust the letter at Harry and Hermione, who leaned towards each otherto read it together.

pg 266, OotP, Percy and Padfoot.

lol, when i read that i was like 'lean a bit closer to each other and...KISS!!!'

Awwww, LOVE those sentences! I think I'll print them out and stick the to my wall!
No, I'm kidding, I'm not a total loony, most of the time! Hhehe
But I do love the sentences!

I LOVE those sentences!!
There so cute!!

btw, Harry/Hermione 4eva, great idea to print them out and stick them to the wall, maybe I'll do that!!

Yea i noticed that too...very romantic...

Maybe it's because I'm so hyper or because I'm such a hopeless romantic but those sentences have me going nuts! All those little clues and things just make me go AWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! And about the "moved together instinctively" sentence, I think that that just shows how well they know each other and how they fit together so well. Oh well, those are my thoughts and I'm quite happy and hyper at the moment so I might not make sense.

Cheers!~LadyMagi

I didn't pick up on this one! It's true though, I know I've said this somewhere before in here already, but it's like H&H can read each others minds!

Love Millie

You must admit,
in book 3/4 it almost seemed as if R/hr was going to happen, but NOBODY can say that book 5 isn't H/Hr shippy!

I'm not going to stick it to my wall Nikki, I'm going to use it as wallpaper for my entire room

Yeah me too!!

sweet.... just super sweet.... see they just have this thing going on and they still don't notice anything yet... but actions speak louder than words...

MOD NOTE: merged with related topic. Orig title: Solidarity & Loyalty - Why did JK say that?
- PK mods

Even through his anger and impatience, Harry recognized Hermione’s offer to accompany him into Umbridge's office as a sign of solidarity and loyalty.

-Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

* * *

Solidarity (noun): harmony of interests and responsibilities
among individuals in a group, especially as manifested in
unanimous support and collective action for something

Loyalty (noun):
1-state of being loyal: the quality or state of being loyal
2-feeling of duty: a feeling of devotion, duty, or attachment to
somebody or something ( often used in the plural )

* * *

Firstly, JK Rowling has a very good grasp on the English language. Much more so than me, I must say. Secondly, these books are told from Harry’s point of view.

With that being said, I have to tell you that I believe that there is only one other instance in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix that is as meaningful in pointing toward Harry’s steadily increasing awareness of Hermione and how much she cares for him than the above quote. The first one being the first time Hermione says Voldemort’s name.

Harry, as you know, was in a state of panic over Sirius. Though he’d raged against Hermione wanting to check out whether or not Sirius was at Grimmauld Place, he still went along with her, and even though he was angry and impatient, he was able to consciously recognize that Hermione’s willingness to break the rules (which is akin to sinning to Hermione) to help ease his fears and decide what they should do next was a sign of solidarity and loyalty. I especially love the definition of loyalty, as it shows that it is a manifestation of an attachment to someone or something. In this case, it is Hermione’s attachment to Harry and a deep concern for his mental/emotional well-being that drives her to do what she does in breaking school rules.

Those who do no ship H/Hr would not see this as a shipping moment, but it is. It’s a very powerful shipping moment, almost as powerful as overcoming an innate fear of saying Voldemort’s name. This is something that afflicts the entire Wizarding world, including Hermione, even though she didn’t grow up in the Wizarding world. I’ve often thought that she shouldn’t be frightened of saying Voldemort since she only learned of him when she came into the magical world, but she was, and she managed to, out of LOVE for Harry, to say his name. That’s the one thing, if you recall, that calmed Harry’s agitation.

So, this is a prime example of how JK smoothly uses even seemingly simple things to illustrate the growing love and ever deepening bond between Hermione and Harry. She is his soul mate, truly.

Very nice!

I just got finished reading OotP for the first time last week, and I have to say, that quote stood out at me as a shipping moment (well, I'm so desperate that I consider really any interaction between Harry and Hermione to be shippy ). I'm not sure why I took it that way, but I guess I was wondering the same thing as you: why did JK use those particular words, "solidarity" and "loyalty, and did she even have to write anything about how Harry viewed Hermione's offer? No, she really didn't. She could have just as easily written that Hermione offered and that Harry accepted. But no...she went a little bit further, didn't she?

Something (probably wishful thinking) tells me that this particular quote speaks volumes. We, as readers, have known all along that Hermione is very loyal when it comes to Harry. But this is the very first time that Harry recognizes it, and I think that is really important. In my opinion, it just goes along with the other little things in the book, such as the fact that Harry found himself thinking about Hermione a lot, and how he would constantly hear her voice of reason inside his head. To me, these are all things that could possibly indicate that unknowingly, Harry is falling for Hermione.

And as for the whole Hermione-calling-Voldemort-by-his-real-name thing - I viewed that as just another way Hermione is becoming Harry's equal.

And the power that Harry has in vast quanities "that the Dark Lord knows not" is love.. If you double it with Hermione, they together will defeat the bugger..

Well, of course, this is very good for us. However, I'm losing my little confidence because JK herself said that Ron and Hermione had more potential. But when she asks if they were suited, I can't find an answer other than a big "YES".

somebody, come and comfort me

What I've found most ironic about the scene you're referring to, Caina, is that it is not Hermione's intelligence and logic that made Harry to stop and think; it was her "solidarity and loyalty". From the moment Harry told Hermione and Ron about his vision of Sirius in danger, Hermione begun to throw logical arguments against what Harry believed to be true (even going as far as confronting him about his saving-people thing). Nothing worked to diffuse Harry's anger and panic. None of Hermione's logical points made Harry stop and think about what he wanted to do. Even when Hermione came up with a plan to confirm Sirius' whereabouts, Harry remained angry and capslocking. It was only when Harry himself realised that Hermione's willingness to go with him to Umbridge's office was a sign of her "loyalty and solidarity" that Harry toned down.

I think in this scene, JKR was once again bringing Harry and Hermione's relationship to another level. Earlier in the book, Harry acknowledged Hermione to be his "voice of reason", which in a lot of ways made sense because Hermione has always represented "logic" in the Trio. But with "loyalty and solidarity", JKR seems to be telling us that Hermione is so much more to Harry than what her books and cleverness provide him.

Personally, I've always believed that this acknowledgment of Hermione's loyalty and solidarity should have happened earlier in the series. Perhaps after Hermione's staunch loyalty to Harry during the TWC. I was sorely disappointed that even after the events prior to the First Task in GoF, it was still Ron whom Harry would "sorely miss", and that Harry did not even thank Hermione for her standing by him when no one would. I've always been disappointed that Hermione didn't seem to be getting credit and acknowledgment for her contributions to Harry's life. So, yeah, this "loyalty and solidarity" quote, even from a non-shippy perspective, was quite a big deal, in my opinion.

I can't wait to see how their relationship will progress from this.

Well I think the reason Harry never thanked Hermione for all her help,was simply because he's taken her friendship for granted. Then we see a total meltdown in the DOM when he thinks she had died,and then he would never be able to tell her that he was grateful for everything she has done for him. Which I hope will be acknowledged in HBP next month. Sooner or later he's going to have to tell her how much her help has meant to him throuhought their time at Hogwarts.

Would you mind showing me this interview please? I know that JK doesn't ever come right out and give answers to the shipping questions because she wants to keep the shipper wars going. I think the answer to the shipping question would end up answering the series and how Harry defeats Voldemort. So, could you point me to this? I'd like to read it word for word. Thanks!

Caina.

Ummm..I think the quote in question here is about this...

JKR herself asked the question "Do you think they're suited?" in response to a question about Harry and Hermione. I'm not sure what aybuke was referring to with the comment "I can't find an answer other than a big "YES", sounds like that wasn't a quote, it was just aybuke's opinion of the question.

Is that what you meant aybuke?

And, caina, I agree that Harry's realization of Hermione's solidarity and loyalty is a very powerful shippy moment. She is truly his soulmate and I think she will be the ONE that is by his side here at the climax of the story.

~Sharon

It's so true, Solidarity and Loyalty are extremely powerful words. Jk could have written something like this; "Even through his anger and impatience, Harry recognized Hermione's offer to accompany him as a sign that she truly is his friend or that she is desparate to help him." But Jk chose solidarity and loyalty. She managed to show a very important of Hermione and how she really feels about Harry.
The part to really pay attention to however, is that Harry recognized this, he recognized how fiercely loyal she is and that she would do anything to help and protect him.
Very telling of Hermione's feelings toward Harry, in my opinion.
So....at a time when Hermione wanted so badly for Harry to listen to her, as she was fearing for his life, is wasn't her words that broke through to him, it was her emotions and actions.
Maybe another powerful emotion from Hermione could help Harry when he really needs it?! cough:LOVE:cough Maybe....she just needs to show him.

Yes! And that is where Arthur Levine of Scholastic's comments on "You go girl. Yes! Hermione" imply. Okay wishful shipper thinking over (haha not really).

Lierian

Yeah, for all her logical arguments as to why it was a trap, including her dead on comment about Harry's "saving people thing." Something that indeed Voldemort later threw in his face.. In spite of all her reservations, she still offered to go with him into Umbridges office, which if caught would surely mean her expolsion from Hogwarts... Remember the line from the movie SS? "Your going to get us killed, OR WORSE YET EXPELLED ! That is how deep her commitment to Harry is, he realized it and calmed down. Who could go wrong with this young woman by his side? Hope he figures it out soon..

Thanks Caina for pointing this sentence out! I never really noticed it before. (As much as I love Pumpkin Pie, I read the books for the struggles between good and evil and right and easy, more so than the romance.)

But it is interesting to read the definitions of solidarity and loyalty. I've always thought of Hermione as a character who sticks to her principles, unless some important to her needed her to bend (or outright break) the rules. Someone, like, say Harry? She's always helped Harry, whether it's making him see what's always been thee (with the "saving people thing" comment in OotP), making sure he didn't get into trouble (trying to keep him from going to his duel with Malfoy in PS/SS), believing him when even the person who, supposedly, he would "miss the most" didn't (knowing that he hadn't entered himself into the TWT in GoF), or trying her hardest to keep him safe (turning the Firebolt over to McGonagall in PoA). She's just all-around loyal to her friends and it was about time harry noticed that.

I can only hope he gets a lot more realizations staring him down in HBP. (Because hopefully that would lead to shippy goodness!)

Yes, it was my opinion. English isn't my native language, so normally I'm having troubles.



If it isn't shippy, I don't know what to say. I don't understand why Good Shippers think hat Hermione isn't right girl for him. She is so desperate to help him, to be by his side. I think their relationshsip is already more than friends. (If we think that the term friend is so plain...)

Potential changes. At this moment, Ron and Hermione might have more potential simple because of the state of mind Harry is in at the moment. I am a firm believer that R/Hr will happen and will fail horribly. Make no mistake, I am a H/hr all the way, however the other ship I can see happening, but I can't see it lasting. Hermione will, if under pressure, choose Harry over Ron, I believe, in any emergency position or whatnot. There maybe a lot of off scene interactions between Hermione and Ron, and that may be the basis of their relationship, however, from all of the onscene interaction between Harry and Hermione, that relationship between R/Hr will not last.