Harry witnesses his parents' deaths yet is unable to see the Thestrals (sp?) in his First Year. Does this mean that his parents are, in fact, not dead?

He has not visited their graves as yet and Avada Kedavra keeps the body normal, so it isn't like they couldn't have had a proper burial. Unless wizards and witches are burnt of course....or however J.K.Rowling plays that.

Since (which was weird) Harry did not go to Cedric's funeral it's something that is unknown.

James and Lily's deaths seem obvious as Harry remembers their screams and shouts under a Dementor, and it is quite obvious he "saw" death since Lily was clutching him to her which caused that old spell of love to be cast on him so that Voldemort could not kill him.

BUT he does not see the Thestrals in his First Year.

:twirls non-existant moustache:

I find it fishy and perhaps Rowling has an explanation for it...unless it's just a plot hole.

:takes off detectives hat, and loses Film Noir narrator voice:

Just curious about what you thought

- J

Wow, seriously, I never even thought of that. I'm a BIG L/J shipper and if that ended up being true that would SO make my day, week, year, EVERYTHING.

You must have done some major thinking on OoP to come with that, hehe. I hope it isn't a plothole though all authors make mistakes, but it seems like a set up for them to "come back". When you think about it, it does seem strange that Cedric did not have a burial. Maybe Rowling didn't think it necessary but it would have been nice to see what a wizarding burial is like.

Anywho, you made my brain tick for the weekend, it's an interesting theory.

*schnoogles*

~*Anya*~

I didn't know if it was really 'seeing death'? But I know that he saw them this year for sure because of Cedric. However, Lily and James might have counted... though I'm not sure if that counts as he was a baby...

i dont think harry saw his parents die i thikn he was just there but since he was so young h wasnt paying attention to what was going on

I have to admit, I wondered about this as well. It's really not very well explained how some people can see thestrals and others can't because everyone has seen death in some way or another, yet not everyone can see them. There must be details J.K.'s left out here, although whether or not it was intentional......well I guess only time will tell.


Just thought of something else, why can't Harry see them at the end of GoF? He'd already seen Cedric's death first hand, so why couldn't he see them then??????

JKR answered this question at the reading she gave at the Royal Albert Hall.

She said that the death has to actually "sink in" before the Thestrals can be seen and that's why he didn't see them when they were leaving. That would also explain why he couldn't see them as a 1st year even though he had seen his mother die. Its highly doubtful that a 15 month old baby knew what had happened and by the time he was old enough to know what death was he would have forgotten the memory

I was going to post this exact thread, but unfortunately, my computer was having a melt down....

I would think that Harry, as a baby, witnessed his mother dying, therefore he would have been able to see the thestrals in his first year. So, as I was reading I thought... maybe Lily IS alive! But, Melissa627 makes a very good point. (t's rather logical, too)

As far as this topic goes, I'm leaning toward what Mellisa627 pointed out, it just makes more sence. I don't think Lily or James could still be alive, wouldn't they have been there for Harry all this time? Well, I don't know, anything could happen, anthing at all.

Sweet

i do think they are dead, becouse if they where alive, they would not had come out of voldies wand on Gof, and only people he has killed comes out of his wand, and vesoue they are connected with the same core.

that´s proves their bodies are dead atleast.

but i do agree with you, why not visit they funeral place where that are burried, and why did he not go to cedrics funeral.
maybe JKR is up to something.

QUOTE (rodrigo @ Jul 10 2003, 12:28 PM)

why not visit they funeral place where that are burried,

I've always wondered about that myself. Why didn't Harry ever visit his parents' grave? Maybe their bodies were mangled too badly to be buried. Just like what Sirius was (wrongly) reported to have done to Pettigrew, per POA. *shudders*

Well, Harry may not have witnessed his parents deaths. His eyes might have been covered, or he may have been looking away.

Just found a flaw in what JKR said about seeing death and letting it sink in...Harry didn't see the thestrals when he left hogwarts after 4th year. Unless the death still hadn't sunk in.

Maybe indeed... oh well, just another mystery I guess.

they are dead! DED! trust me. remember book 4 where their ghost forms came out of voldies wand? comon they are dead and she probably made a mistake since them dam horses werent created until later.

I think we all know they are dead now. We were actually just discussing how it was Harry couldn't see the thestrals.

J.K. Rowling may fill us in on that part later because the thestrals were created after she made the first few books. plus i saw the topic "James And Lily's Deaths, or was it?" so reading that you know it makes you sound like your trying to prove that they are alive. ahah maybe they are alive in harrys heart for all we know .

Nah, I don't think he saw those deaths, I think he was looking away at the time.

QUOTE

Harry witnesses his parents' deaths yet is unable to see the Thestrals (sp?) in his First Year. Does this mean that his parents are, in fact, not dead? He has not visited their graves as yet and Avada Kedavra keeps the body normal, so it isn't like they couldn't have had a proper burial. Unless wizards and witches are burnt of course....or however J.K.Rowling plays that. Since (which was weird) Harry did not go to Cedric's funeral it's something that is unknown. James and Lily's deaths seem obvious as Harry remembers their screams and shouts under a Dementor, and it is quite obvious he "saw" death since Lily was clutching him to her which caused that old spell of love to be cast on him so that Voldemort could not kill him. BUT he does not see the Thestrals in his First Year. :twirls non-existant moustache: I find it fishy and perhaps Rowling has an explanation for it...unless it's just a plot hole. :takes off detectives hat, and loses Film Noir narrator voice: Just curious about what you thought   - J

Harry was only one year old or so. A baby/toddler is not capable of understanding death. The baby understands that something truamatic has happened, but his simple mind does not understand that his parents have died.

To see a Thestral, requires having seen and understood, death.

I think it is just that simple.

Arthur Hansen

haha thanks Arthur Hansen but I think as Ice Phoneix said, we all know Rowling's explanation now. Melissa627 had found a quote by Rowling that said "death has to sink in before you can see a Thestral" or something along those lines.

Thanks for explaining everybody. No more detective work for me

- J

i agree that Harry as a baby must either have not comprehended what happened when he saw Lily die, or who could have been looking away. For all we know Harry could have been asleep

I think everyone here as already said it. JKR said that a death had to sink in. Obviously, you don't remember much when you were younger( for instance, I don't remember being one year old *lol* Well, I do remember mt first b-day party, but that's not the point! ). When you're that young, you can't comprehend something that big( or even small ). You need to be a bit older to get the idea.

merged with similar topic - PK mods


Lily and James died with the avada-kedavra curse right?So the limp forms of their bodies must have been there somewhere next to Harry's.If so then they should have proper graves in a graveyard.Then how come harry never visited the graves?
But if their bodies got blown up and so did the house,Harry would have died as well,i mean he survived voldie only because of his mom's love.But that wouldn't save him if a house collapsed on him...would it?

about the whole why Harry has never visited their graves, i have no idea.

but the house collapsing is easy, while it is just opinion and not fact as JKR has never confirmed it, yet it is probaly the most widely accepted theory regarding this situation.As stated in the missing 24 hours area between Voldemorts attack on the Potters to Harry arriving at the Dursleys on the website hp-lexicon.org, the main reason he is thought to survive is because the magicness of his body. It seems as though very magicalness of a magical person allows them to participate in activites that would cause serious phsyical damage or be fatal to muggles because the magical power that flows throughout their body protects them from certain physical harm.IE Neville falls off his broom from 60 feet in the air and only breaks his wrist while a muggle would die or be paralyzed from something like that.

Further reference can be taken to Quidditch, for example people are hit squarely in the face by a bludger going 70 mph and come out off with their lip bleeding, and they fall from great heights with little to no damage. Also another we see is when Hagrid says "Codswallop, theres no way a car crash could have killed Lily and James Potter"(PS/SS).So it seems highly unlikely that a house falling on top of Harry would have caused him death or serious harm.

He hasn't had time I think. Either he's at school, or at the Dursley's. Probably at the very of his 7th will JKR have Harry visit them. You know, that last scene of a story...

lol good point about the house

Hmm. I thought that their bodies were destroyed by the blast or something. I mean... Voldemort's body did, right? Then again, Voldemort was hit directly with his own spell, creating something that obviously destroyed his body but not his spirit. *shrugs* Plus, the house was in ruins as well... down to the ground, I think it said. Or did JK Rowling never describe it thoroughly? *is lazy and doesn't feel like getting her copy of the book* XD

I think Harry survived the blast because it was the result of the curse. Maybe he was still under his mother's protection because of that issue.

As far as visiting Lily and James' graves *memorials if no bodies were left* I think it is an issue of his situation. The Dursley's would never allow it when he is with them, and he can't leave school to go. Even if he could go, it seems no one has told him where they are buried at.

I've always wondered why there's no scene of Harry visiting his parents' grave. Thanks for your ideas, people!

I was always wondering why Harry never asked such questions. I mean as JKR did say he ask things he should already asked I thought something like Where is they grave? Or where did they die?

I mean as son you want to know such things, don't you?

I've always assumed that he never visited because its not very likely that the Dursley's would take him, now is it? We all know how they are and they discourage curiosty...I imagine he asked as a little boy but they just freaked out. And he didnt mention it again. Why he hasn't asked Sirius, Remus, or Dumbledore to take him or tell him where it is...I dont know. I wonder that myself. Maybe they dont have the bodies?

Good to see you here in Portkey, valley06. You're right, why doesn't Harry ask his adult friends to take him to his parents' graves?

Maybe JKR just forgot to write such visit scenes. Or she could have deliberately omitted them altogether. The same way she never wrote scenes of the Trio celebrating Ron or Hermione's birthdays.

EDIT: Well, if JRK won't write it, then our Portkey-mates will! Read this ficlet

i don't know about you but i thought of this ages ago. why has harry never asked to see the graves of his parents? in the new interview with alfonso he says that
SPOILER!
j.k.rowling wanted the graveyard in that film (poa) in a certain place becase it plays an important part in the 6th and 7th one.
wouldn't it be cute if he went to bereave for sirius and hermione won't let him go on his own so she goes with him. and the graves are al lined up sirius,lily,james and they bring flowers. and then possibly he turns to cry on hermiones shoulder? lets hope eh?

Mod Note: Inserted spoiler tags just in case. ~Anazecria/Nielle

merging this with a similar thread ~gal-texter

I always wondered why Harry didn't get to see the graves, too. And I kinda think it's part of the plot, but I dunno, really. But I think it would be too H/H and JK wants to surprise us But yeah, it would be really cute.

Hm...good question.

I think that, where his parents are concerned, he's more interested in knowing about them, and paying homage to their graves isn't a big concern of his. As he doesn't remember them, he's not compelled to visit their graves. I hope, however, with the death of someone who was like a parent to him, that JKR will introduce that whole 'visit the grave' thing. I also hope that the werepuppy (aka Remus) has enough sense to bury Sirius next to his best bud.

Looking at it from a literary standpoint, however, I can see why JKR didn't put it in there sooner. As Harry matures, the subject matter matures. Hence, it would be out of place to show Harry going to his parent's grave in the first book. Now that Harry (and the reader) has dealt with death in the world of the books, it might be a prudent time to go visit the graves.

Just my own thoughts...

There might be a problem about what you are saying Suns Golden Ray... ickle problem. *sarcastic*

When Sirius fell through the veil, he moved to somewhere else. No body. Nothing to bury. Sorry to say this.... but... there's no remaining trace of Sirius on this world.

My0b, you're right about there being no trace of Sirius since he is dead but i still think the Order of the Phoenix will perform a burial ceremony for Sirius. It would pay homage to Sirius. Actually, I think the graves could possibly be near Hogwarts or next to Harry's grandparents since Sirius was close to them (he visited them every Sunday (The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black). I didn't say next to Harry's parents because we don't know where there are buried...

Hmm... I'd like to think that he simply didn't know where his parents were buried. I mean, the actual location of Godric's Hollow has never been revealed to us. I think Harry wondered about it, JKR just didn't write it. She doesn't tell us everything that goes on, you know.

Hello to all, esp. to our newbies Suns Golden Ray and Corellian-Writer! Go introduce yourselves in the Wrestling the Troll forum!

We have a related discussion in here. JKR reportedly told (POA director) Cuaron that:



Feel free to join our discussion there.

Oh btw, there's a simple but touching scene of Harry visiting his parents' graves in this fanfic: Getting Closer to Fine I'm not sure in which chapter, though. Somewhere in the middle. Hermione worries about him. You can see other readers' comments in the Fic Discussion Forum link.

EDIT: Another related discussion: If you could ask JKR *any* question? <-- you'd laugh at what our PK-mates would ask! I added this "will we see Harry visiting his parents' graves" question here.

I think there might be a possibility that the Potters aren't dead. Although I don't dare to get my hopes up.
The fact Harry couldn't see the Thestrals before doesn't say much, for there are a lot of things to be said about that and I don't need to repeat those.
But there isn't solid proof they are dead eather.
The fact is they did come out of Voldemorts wand, but so was the hand Voldie made for Wormtail. He must have done something to the Potters, but they really don't have to be dead
Anything could be possible if you ask me

Remember, as well as the whole "sinking in" thing, the first book. Harry was told his parents had died in a car accident, but all he remembered was a flash of green light. Other memories came back later with the dementors, but I don't recall him seeing either parent dying in these memories, mainly hearing voices.

If you check out JKR's site, she addresses this. She says he was "in his cot at the time" and "all he saw was green lightning".

This is under the FAQ section, under About the Books, one of the Dark Marks.

BTW I am a firm believer that Lily and James are in fact DEAD! If Lily weren't dead, Harry wouldn't be alive right now. If James weren't dead, what happened in that scene sephiroth cited?

I think one of the many purposes of book 3 was to show Harry accepting their deaths (he wants to hear them again, the fact that he's in contact with one of their best friends). This is comes to a climax in the scene by the lake. Harry is waiting for his dad to miraculously save him. He then realizes that his dad isn't coming and it is really him who saved himself, Sirius and Hermione.

So, how is it that Harry can accept it and some of us can't?

Spot on because in GOF at the end Dumbledore says that Harry will come with him because he can only recover if he accepts and can only accept if he understands.
so maybe you have to understand and accept what you have seen.

I remember hearing somewhere that he was in his crib. If he was in his crib there is a better chance he did not see anything. And I highly doubt Lily and Jame are alive.