I had a thought this morning I wanted to share with my fellow H/Hr shippers. Often I read posts from R/Hr shippers and they say the same old thing about Ron and Hermione...bickering, awkwardness, tension, blah, blah...

Seeing as it is summer and thoughts of swimming pools enter my mind, I thought, you know, shipping H/Hr is like swimming in the deep end of the pool. It's harder (we have to constantly defend our ship), you have to be careful and aware (we have to search the books for clues since we're not "obvious"), it's more exciting and adventurous (hey, you know I could drown here!), and most of all, it gives you a lot more satisfaction and sense of accomplishment. It just means more...anyone can paddle around in 3 feet of water...but to swim, really swim, you have to venture out in the deep water.

That's the relationship of H/Hr. Deep water. It just has way more meaning than R/Hr. A lot of folks say that JKR isn't making romance an integral part of the plot but I disagree. LOVE is a very important theme of her books. All the way to book one, we know that James' and Lily's sacrifice for Harry was of course, because they loved him. Then Harry spent the next 10 years without love. He entered the magical world where he belonged and found friendship, loyalty and people who cared about him again. It's plain that Dumbledore loves him, the Weasleys love him, even Hagrid and McGonnagal care deeply for Harry. Then there's Ron and Hermione...both would follow Harry into the fire and indeed have on many occasions. Ron gives Harry his male friendship, they have had their ups and downs but at this point they are still each others' best friend. Then Hermione. Harry and Hermione have developed their friendship to the point that Harry hears her voice in his head, he knows he can depend on her, on her loyalty and solidarity, she alone has stood by him throughout the entire series so far.

They haven't had tension or awkwardness. So what? Why would this be important? To me, it's the shallow end of the pool. Easy and without much substance. Doesn't take a lot of effort to work this relationship out. With Harry and Hermione, it's a lot deeper. And ultimately much more meaningful.

I still believe that JKR plans to make romance and LOVE an important part of the last two books. And that rules out R/Hr to me. Because their romance would be peripheal and unimportant to the plot. These books are about Harry. And Hermione's relationship to Harry becomes more and more important as the books go on. From what I've read, the R/Hr shippers believe that their relationship can work because Harry is meant to be alone and a romance with Hermione shouldn't be part of the plotline. But I disagree. JKR has always had Hermione by his side, she met Harry a very short time after Harry met Ron. They may not have become fast friends but they were 11 year olds. Boys and girls don't bond well at that age. It takes more. Like battling a troll! But Hermione already had a place in Harry's mind. He thought of her, worried that she was in danger, and taking Ron along with him, went to her rescue. From there on out, it's been the trio.

But in varying combinations. In COS, it was the trio until Hermione was petrified, then it was Harry and Ron. But even then, Hermione was there. She may have been petrified but she still left a clue for Harry to find and it was an important one. In POA, Harry and Ron were still the buddy team, Hermione was still an important part of the equation but Harry still preferred the comraderie of Ron. But it was Hermione he ultimately turned to...literally...the time turner. And that was the first time Ron was out of the picture. Then GoF...well, we know what happened here. Major falling out between Ron and Harry. Where was Hermione? By Harry's side, always. Despite all the jealousy and friction going on, the relationship between Harry and Hermione shone through the whole book, no matter what they stayed connected to one another. Then came OotP. What can I say? If ever was the connection between H/Hr apparent, it was in this book. Ron and Harry are still friends, they still matter to one another, but Hermione has taken a higher place in Harry's mind and in his heart (although I don't think he is aware of that yet). He was unable to make it work with Cho. Why? Simple...Hermione. She has already taken the space in his heart that's meant to be filled by a lover, he just doesn't realize it yet. But he will.

So, I know what I'm trying to say here. I think romance will be an important factor in the last two books. If it's not then perhaps R/Hr could happen and if it does then Harry will be truly alone. It would be ridiculous for Harry to have true romantic feelings for anyone other than the girl who has been by his side all these years and has proved time and again that he is her priority and that she cares for him in ways no one else does.

Myself, I like swimming in the deep end of the pool!

~Sharon

Excellent post, hammergal04! I completely agree that there is a depth to Harry and Hermione's relationship which just doesn't exist for any other ship. I'm also of the opinion that love is vital to Harry's fight against Voldemort. It was, as you said, the sacrificial love of his parents that saved him the first time.

Since first going to Hogwarts, Harry has experienced love in many forms.

Friendship - through Ron and Hermione, Harry's learning to trust and depend on others. They stand up for each other whether it's mundane things like schoolwork or life and death struggles like the MOM.

Familial - through the Weasley's, Harry experiences what it's like to belong to a family. The Weasleys are like so many families, including my own. They argue, tease and bicker, but when push comes to shove they stand together. (Percy aside, of course).

Parental - Sirius, although as JK herself pointed out, Harry thinks of him as a mixture of father and brother.

What Harry has yet to experience is real, romantic love. Oh, you could argue Cho, but that was a crush - a physical chemistry that fell apart when he actually got to know her. (Fell apart because she wasn't Hermione!)

What I believe is that Harry needs this last piece of the puzzle to understand 'The Power He Knows Not'. In my mind, there is only one female who is capable, who's had the build up, who has become Harry's voice of reason and his most loyal friend. If love is the key, than I think that only Hermione can possibly fulfill this role and complete the puzzle for Harry.

Thank you! And thanks so much for listing the loves of Harry. I think it is important to point out how much the theme of love just permeates JKR's books. Harry has experienced many types of love already, except for romantic love, because as you said, his experience with Cho was not successful and of course, we all know why!



Absolutely! JKR may be coming up with something special in regards to the "Power He Knows Not", but I think we already know it will have a lot to do with love. And Dumbledore has already told Harry this:

OotP, "The Lost Prophecy", pg 843-844, US version


And I believe it will again.

~Sharon

Sharon - Great post and an awesome overview of H/Hr's history and how it fits into Harry's future.

I've debated this subject (love as a main theme) with a few Herons and they all say that romantic love shouldn't and will not be as important as the family or friendship love. And I thought...why? What's so horrible about romantic love? I understand if people say that out of personal preference (since some people don't want HP to become about romance - fair enough), but from a literary viewpoint: why not? They also imply that romantic love isn't more powerful than the love for your family and friends. I say that it is, simply because it affects you in completely different ways. It's called growing up. You'll never stop needing and loving your family or your friends, but as you get older, you automatically reach for something more. You start looking for the one person who accepts and loves you for who you truly are. Two people in love share things that they don't share with any other human being, that's why it's so unique. They know you like no one else does. They can crush you with a word or a look, yet can make you happier than anyone else. And that's powerful. And I don't see no reason why Harry shouldn't be allowed to experience that.

Oops, made a little speech there, didn't I? Ah, well.

The more I think about it, the more I'm like...insanely convinced that it's gonna be H/Hr. Think about this: Harry spent most his childhood unloved. And these experiences affect you for the rest of your life. Harry didn't KNOW love before he entered Hogwarts, just like you guys already said. That's especially why I think that Harry's relationship with his eventual LI needs a lot of build up. Given Harry's history, he's not the type of guy who falls in love quickly. Attraction maybe, but not love. I think this quote here says it perfectly:

"Perhaps, after all, romance did not come into one's life with a pomp and blare, like a gay knight riding down; perhaps it crept to one's side like an old friend through quiet ways; perhaps it revealed itself in seeming prose, until some sudden illumination flung athwart its pages betrayed the rhythm and the music; perhaps... perhaps... love unfolded naturally out of a beautiful friendship, as a golden-hearted slipping from its green sheath."

Y'know...I'm starting to think that some people won't "fall in love" with H/Hr until Harry does, too. It's like they need to realise it with Harry first to see it.

11 days left.

Nora

Oh, and happy 4th of July to all the Americans.

Thanks so much, Nora, great post as always! I especially agree with your statement about others not falling in love with H/Hr till Harry does! How wonderful is that?

I think one of the main reasons I ship H/Hr is because I love Harry so much, I want so much for him and Hermione is just so amazing and perfect for him, I can't stand it!

I hope JKR writes Harry with the "oh so wonderful" feeling of falling in love...won't that be awesome to read?

I think I'm going to explode waiting for HBP!

~Sharon

I agree with everything that has been said in this thread, but the statement above stood out for me as it reminded me of some of the interactions between Harry and Hermione in OOTP. On a number of occasions Harry only had to look at Hermione to have her change an opinion



This is one of a number of examples in the book were a simple look from Harry can have a profound effect on Hermione. I think it is what JKR is building to as you do not see this kind of interaction between any of the other characters with Harry. They both affect eachother and in many cases they don't seem to realise it (or at least Harry doesn't). Anyway just thought that was interesting.

I agree, it is the deep end for me .

Noddy

I think there are many levels of relationships in the books. In the earlier books we see more superficial relationships that do not last very long, these are the relationships that happen between young people that are growing and changing. Harry and Hermione are forced to mature at a faster rate and we see this happen as thier lives and futures get more dangerous. Although thier relationship isnt seen easily on the surface- it is these, deep down, and as they continue to mature they will realise it. The relationship itself isnt an easy one, like when swimming in deep water they have a lot to come up against and it would be easy to lose footing and drowm: however its the relationships that take the most work and the most time that last the distance- and that is what I really believe the relationship between these two characters is like.

thanks hammergal04 that was a really interesting post and got me thinking a lot

That is why you should never venture in deep water alone. If something happened you could drown.. Harry will never go it alone, that is always made very clear at the end of each book, he has friends to back him up, and he has Hermione who is more than a friend.

yupps...JKR is indeed focusing on true love as this is one of the morals of the book. there is no reason why she would write superfical, forever-bickering, demeaning each other 'love'. we must have faith in our ship, as we will surely sail far
Dear sailors, prepare your quills and parchment! ready to take down the HHr moments in HP & the HPB!

[quote=Nora,Jul 4 2005, 07:00 PM]

I agree, romantic love is a powerful, powerful thing. It is so much more important than people give it credit for. Really, when Herons say that, it's only a flimsy excuse to shoot down Harmony.

Caina.

And I really think the Herons want to rule out romance for Harry because they know it will be with Hermione. It can be with no one else but. They just can't face that fact, I think. If she's with Harry, she can't be with Ron. Plain and simple. So better to just deny that romance will play a big part. But I think it will.

~Sharon

That, and I think deep down they know that if it's romantic love that'll save Harry in the end, it can only be Hermione because Harry's feelings for Ginny or Luna could never run that deep (not with only two books left anyway...). They think that if Harry has a romance, it won't be that big True Love type. Why? Because his relationship with Cho was such a such a success already?