MOD NOTE: Orig topic title: Draco Malfoy The redeemable qualities of a ferret. - PK mods
If this topic has been discussed before, please forgive me. I tried a search and couldn't find any information on it. Also, if this needs to be moved somewhere else, Mods please do so.
Now, on with the topic at hand. Recently I've read a few fics in the fanfic section that show, not only a redeemed Malfoy, but also one who has feelings toward and/or a friendship with Hermione. For the life of me, I can't figure out why people are so adamant about making Malfoy a good character.
Looking at the character of Malfoy in the books, he has no redeemable qualitites whatsoever. Yet, in many fanfictions he is portrayed as being remorseful, and even switching to the "good side". I don't understand where this is coming from. I could see it if he was basically good to begin with, then turned bad, and was brought back to the light (i.e. Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader in the Star Wars saga). But JKR has repeatedly shown him to be a biggoted racist who lords his position and power over everyone. There are many examples of his hatred for Harry and his friends. Witness his statements about Sirius' death in OotP and his glee that Hermione might be killed in CoS.
I have a theory about this in that most of the people who favor a "good" Malfoy are female who think that Tom Felton is cute. If that is the case, then it's not a good basis for taking an evil character and making them good.
In my opinion, making Malfoy good is the same as making Neville Longbottom a Death Eater. It makes about as much sense.
I guess what I'm asking for are some reasons why some writers insist on taking a character that JKR created and having him do a 180 to the "good side". I truly would like to know. Have you read something in the books that I haven't? Do you have information from JKR herself that indicates Malfoy will end up as a good guy? I honestly would like to know.
I'm not trying to upset anyone here at Portkey because I know that Draco/Ginny is one of the 'ships here at this site. (Again, I don't know where that's coming from because it hasn't even been hinted at in the books!) So please, don't get upset with me nor condemn me for my beliefs. I openly welcome logical, intelligent debate that supports the "good" Malfoy theory.
Thank you.
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I've actually discussed this at another message board, and find it interesting. I don't know about it being un-characteristic of him to be "good", but I would like to point one little thing. No one is born evil. Think of Draco's family, there is a reason why he acts the way he does, he's been raised by a death eater. And there's one comment he made in GoF that keeps me wondering about his mother. (Quoting from memory, and Swedish book)
Harry: And what about you, Malfoy? Does your mother always scrunch up her face like that, or is it only when she smells you?
Draco: Don't you badmouth my mother, Potter!
In this scene, Draco is the one who is really insulted, yet his mind is on his mother. Could be issues here, people!
Anyway, there's nothing wrong with redemption. But like my friend Seph said: There's nothing to redeem him of, he's just bullied a couple of kids around.
I have to agree with that, except that Draco has shown to think less of someone's life, and therefor has to learn to value all life. Of course, that is something that Harry still has to learn too.
Harry: And what about you, Malfoy? Does your mother always scrunch up her face like that, or is it only when she smells you?
Draco: Don't you badmouth my mother, Potter!
In this scene, Draco is the one who is really insulted, yet his mind is on his mother. Could be issues here, people!
Anyway, there's nothing wrong with redemption. But like my friend Seph said: There's nothing to redeem him of, he's just bullied a couple of kids around.
I have to agree with that, except that Draco has shown to think less of someone's life, and therefor has to learn to value all life. Of course, that is something that Harry still has to learn too.
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| In my opinion, making Malfoy good is the same as making Neville Longbottom a Death Eater. It makes about as much sense. |
May Neville never turn that way. 
Which brings us to the question-why is the title of chapter 6 in HBP called "Draco's Detour" if its something really significant she wants us to see happen to him in the book? I've seen some fics too in which Snape is able to guide him to join the good guys and help the Order. But I find that highly unlikely since Malfoy pretty much told Harry at the end of OOTP that Harry so deceased as far as Voldemort or the Death Eaters avenging him for his father's imprisonment.
This topic came up as a response to a story over in the fanfiction section in which the author made Malfoy not only Head Boy, but also Hermione's best friend and confidant, which went so far away from canon it wasn't even funny.
The whole debate came up in the reviews about Malfoy being a redeemable character. From what I've read in all five books, Malfoy is nothing more than a conniving, hateful bully who enjoys seeing people suffer. Let's not forget the things he has said to Harry about Sirius.
I have not read anything in the books that shows Malfoy is afraid to be a Death Eater. In fact, it seems to me he is well on his way down the path of following in his father's footsteps and enjoying every minute of it.
The whole debate came up in the reviews about Malfoy being a redeemable character. From what I've read in all five books, Malfoy is nothing more than a conniving, hateful bully who enjoys seeing people suffer. Let's not forget the things he has said to Harry about Sirius.
I have not read anything in the books that shows Malfoy is afraid to be a Death Eater. In fact, it seems to me he is well on his way down the path of following in his father's footsteps and enjoying every minute of it.
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| Anyway, there's nothing wrong with redemption. But like my friend Seph said: There's nothing to redeem him of, he's just bullied a couple of kids around. |
I agree in that there's nothing wrong with redemption, but where is his remorse? He has done far more than just petty bullying. He has constantly hounded Harry, tried to get him kicked out of school, intentionally tried to hurt him and his friends (look at the curse he put on Hermione in GOF), and he has threatened them with physical harm (in OOTP). Everything he has done in the books has shown his true colors.
And just because Malfoy took exception to Harry's comment about Narcissa doesn't mean he has a good heart. It just means he cares for his mother. The Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan also loves his mother. Does that mean he's going to all of a sudden change his mind about racial purity? I don't think so.
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| Which brings us to the question-why is the title of chapter 6 in HBP called "Draco's Detour" if its something really significant she wants us to see happen to him in the book? |
I haven't seen the chapter titles, so I can't fully answer that question. For all we know, Harry could be following Malfoy through Diagon Alley and Malfoy takes a detour down Knocturn Alley for some dark magic supplies.
All I'm saying is that there are many people who write fanfiction and/or believe that Malfoy is going to turn to the good side when I see no evidence to support this claim. People don't turn from 16 years of racial hatred and bigotry overnight. I'm wanting people to convince me why they think he will turn. So far I haven't seen anything that makes me think Malfoy is anything other than what JKR portrays him in the books; a malicious, spoiled brat who's headed down a very dark path.
Malfoy's development as Harry's archenemy next to Voldemort has only begun. JKR, so far, has laid the foundations of a 'maturing' adversary by laying his background, being a spoiled brat, a proud Slytherin, a wealthy racist, son of a Death Eater and now son of a convict. She has laid out all the ingredients to cook up what an evil Draco Malfoy is all about. She has firmly established that Draco would be Harry's enemy and 'redeeming' the character before revealing his true potential as a worthy antagonist doesn't make any sense. Draco isn't a "mystery" character. She already have one with Snape.
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| And just because Malfoy took exception to Harry's comment about Narcissa doesn't mean he has a good heart. It just means he cares for his mother. The Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan also loves his mother. Does that mean he's going to all of a sudden change his mind about racial purity? I don't think so. |
I didn't say that! I meant that he might have issues with his mother, that there might be some psychological background to it. Kind of like what did Dudley see when the dementors attacked, it is a question that can be related to why they both are a**es. The "Grand Wizard"? Man, I didn't know about that. I read an AU-book about omething like that, but I thought it was all just from an AU.
My point is that Draco eventhough Draco may be on the path of evil, we shouldn't treat him as he was born evil. He'll probably never redeem himself, but it's a nice thought. Snape could, why not Malfoy?
My point is that Draco eventhough Draco may be on the path of evil, we shouldn't treat him as he was born evil. He'll probably never redeem himself, but it's a nice thought. Snape could, why not Malfoy?
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| This topic came up as a response to a story over in the fanfiction section in which the author made Malfoy not only Head Boy, but also Hermione's best friend and confidant, which went so far away from canon it wasn't even funny. |
Whether or not Draco is redeemable, that is not possible from the development we have. Draco and Hermione can't become friends in a span of two years, I'd doubt they'd get anywhere near that in twenty. I have a difficult time enough seeing Malfoy as getting on first name basis with Ron and Harry when they're grown ups, how can I deal with Hermione?
| QUOTE (Shantari @ Mar 17 2005, 08:32 AM) |
| I didn't say that! I meant that he might have issues with his mother, that there might be some psychological background to it. Kind of like what did Dudley see when the dementors attacked, it is a question that can be related to why they both are a**es. |
I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood your statement. I apologize if I offended you.
I feel that any person is redeemable, if they show remorse for what they have done. So far, Malfoy hasn't shown any.
A lot of Portkey authors have him making this grand, sacrificial gesture (primarily saving Ginny and having her fall in love with him). I ask the question, "why"? Everything that he has done so far in the books has been for his own benefit. I just don't see him changing, even over the course of a couple of years.
| QUOTE |
| Whether or not Draco is redeemable, that is not possible from the development we have. Draco and Hermione can't become friends in a span of two years, I'd doubt they'd get anywhere near that in twenty. I have a difficult time enough seeing Malfoy as getting on first name basis with Ron and Harry when they're grown ups, how can I deal with Hermione? |
I wholeheartedly agree!
i dont think malfoy will become good i think it's much more entertaining when he's evil coz everyone has got a enemy havent they
| QUOTE |
| I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood your statement. I apologize if I offended you. |
No worries. 
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| I feel that any person is redeemable, if they show remorse for what they have done. So far, Malfoy hasn't shown any. |
Of course this is all up for discussion. We don't know Malfoy all that well, he might be more remorseful than we know. Or he could actually grow up and mature. He may as of now not even realise that what he's doing is wrong.
To be evil, you must be conscious of the evil in what you do. Think of Mr. Malfoy. He's more or less raising Draco to an opposite morality, where good is bad and bad is good. Draco might think in some way that he is "good", or more like right in what he's doing. If he doesn't think that he's wrong, then he won't regret himself.
One could argue that other people have been telling Draco that he's wrong, but consider the people who has been telling him. Hogwarts' teaching staff(minus Snape) of which is father has told him that they are all sniveling fools(minus Snape). Hermione Granger who is a "mudblood", which Draco has been told is a lesser type of person. Harry Potter who stopped the Dark Lord, guess what Mr. Malfoy thinks of him. Ron Weasley, a Weasley people. Can we say inherited rivalry? In short, no person whom Malfoy might respect enough have told him that he's a "bad boy". Instead they have been telling him that he's noce and everything.
So, redeemable? Draco has to grow up and realise that he has to start to listen to what other people think. Otherwise he won't just be evil forever, he will have to settle for the fact that only Pansy will wanna date him.
To be evil, you must be conscious of the evil in what you do. Think of Mr. Malfoy. He's more or less raising Draco to an opposite morality, where good is bad and bad is good. Draco might think in some way that he is "good", or more like right in what he's doing. If he doesn't think that he's wrong, then he won't regret himself.
One could argue that other people have been telling Draco that he's wrong, but consider the people who has been telling him. Hogwarts' teaching staff(minus Snape) of which is father has told him that they are all sniveling fools(minus Snape). Hermione Granger who is a "mudblood", which Draco has been told is a lesser type of person. Harry Potter who stopped the Dark Lord, guess what Mr. Malfoy thinks of him. Ron Weasley, a Weasley people. Can we say inherited rivalry? In short, no person whom Malfoy might respect enough have told him that he's a "bad boy". Instead they have been telling him that he's noce and everything.
So, redeemable? Draco has to grow up and realise that he has to start to listen to what other people think. Otherwise he won't just be evil forever, he will have to settle for the fact that only Pansy will wanna date him.
Malfoy may be redeemable, but I don't think it's going to be a spontaneous change in him. He's having to overcome 16 years of programming by his father. If he does change, I think it will be a slow change over time, much to the dismay of many Portkeyers.
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