Greetings, my Pumpkin Pie comrades! I am embarking today on a different tack in the case of H/Hr. I attempt to confirm why H/Hr is a more likely paring than R/Hr, its chief rival.

My main argument will revolve around the fact that Harry and Hermione are equals, while Ron and Hermione are not. I do not think I am too far out of line when I say that the success of a relationship depends a great deal on both partners being relative equals to each other. When one partner outshines the other by a lot, it becomes far too lopsided.

Now, comparing Harry and Hermione we have the following things:

1) Harry and Hermione are the two most magically powerful students at Hogwarts. Neville seems to be approaching them with his sudden turnabout in OOtP, but no one else is close. Harry seems to have more inborn talent/power, while Hermione studies harder and has more knowledge. For example, Hermione always is the first to master a feat or spell in class, while Harry has the sheer power and intuition to learn on the fly. Hermione is better at taking that next step (mobiliarbus anyone? I doubt she was taught that. She put it together herself), Harry is better at reacting on the fly.

2) Hermione is undoubtedly the smartest (or cleverest) student in the school. Hands down. However, Harry is not far behind. There have been many clues that his mainly average grades are more a result of disinterest, or lack of effort (or having too many other things, like horrible death at the hands of LV, on his mind). Furthermore, Harry almost always makes the connections and leaps of logic that Hermione makes and shares an unspoken moment with her, while others, such as Ron, do not. Examples inlcude Malfoy's "dogging" comment, the diary in CoS and both putting it together with Tom Riddle and his special award to the school, the connection between the galleons and the mark LV uses on DEs arms...

3) Socially, Harry and Hermione are well known around the school, their immediate environment. Harry for being the Boy That Lived and his adventures and deeds at Hogwarts, Hermione for being so clever. In essence, they are equally prominent. Just in the school that is, not counting the outside world. Harry has an edge, of course. However, it must be said that none of the trio is excatly a social butterfly. They do ok in such situations, but only Hermione seems to actually have people skills. And even those are negated by a bit of intellectual arrogance. Being so smart works against her.


Now, Ron and Hermione on the same factors:

1) Hermione is vastly more powerful than Ron. There are literally no examples of Ron doing anything difficult or extraordinary in a magical sense. His crowning achievements are levitating a club and... well, that's about it.

2) Hermione is far smarter than Ron. Ron's grades are about the same as Harry's, except for DADA. However, Ron makes none of the connection and logical leaps that Harry does. He is occasionally portrayed as shrewd, but only enough times that it still surprises us (as in, we expected him not to be). Thus he is more consistently portrayed as clueless.

3) Ron who? We already know he's intensely jealous of the attention Harry gets. He is only know for crashing a flying car, being magically put to sleep for the second task and being Charlie's brother, or Bill's broher, or Fred's brother...

I'm not bashing Ron in any way here. I love his character. He's simply not an equal of Hermione. Or Harry, for that matter.

In any relationship Ron got in to with Hermione, Hermione would be the dominant one. Knowing Ron's personality, that just wouldn't work.

Therefore, I submit that R/Hr has no future, but H/Hr is full of possibilities.

Great essay!

It's what i love about the H/HR coupling...they are so intune with each other, in personal characteristics as well as in personality. It's why it takes only one look from each other to know what the other is thinking.

Keep up the good work!

I completely agree. H/Hr are being protrayed as partners and equals, which is needed the most in relationships. It's what makes them work well. R/Hr is unequal.

That was a cool essay. But you cant base Harry and Hermoine's future relationship
on the fact that Harry and Hermione are both powerful and smart. And there is no evidence to prove that Ron is not as powerful or even more powerful than Hermione. Just because Ron and Hermione are not equal in your eyes doesn't mean that they are not. Ron has proved himself time and time again. Never try to make something look good by making something else sound bad. Im not knocking your essay or anything like that, but when Harry and Hermione get together it is not going to be because they are both powerful and smart. Its going to be beacuse they love each other

I think it's more of the fact that Ron and Hermione's personalities don't seem to mesh on the same level as Harry and Hermione's do. Harry and Hermione are more atuned into what's going on while little by little Ron seems to be increasingly left behind when it comes to figuring things out or being in the loop with things. This fact does not make him stupid or anything. There has been many times when Hermione has had to explain things to both Harry and Ron. It just seems to me like Harry is quicker on the uptake. Harry and Hermione have gotten to a point of subliminal communication and understanding that I don't believe Ron has reached with either Harry or Hermione. Also, the main issue I see with a Ron/Hermione relationship is based on Ron's feelings of insecurity and lack of self-confidence and Hermione's lack of patience with Ron and his feelings of insecurity and self-confidence. Hermione is quickly exasperated with Ron (as evidenced with her attitude towards Ron not saying Voldemort in OOTP....even though, up until OOTP Hermione had not said his name either). Any time Ron makes a comment or interjects something into the conversation, Hermione quickly jumps at him. I think Ron feels inadequate around her and this puts him on the defensive. This lack of patience on Hermione's part and Ron's defensiveness is a major road block in them having any kind of deeper relationship. They don't see eye to eye on things, have differences of opinion on how to approach issues and don't know how to have a communicative argument. They don't resolve issues the way Harry and Hermione do. They sweep it under the carpet and ignore the problem until it arises again (much in the way the issue of the argument between Ron and Harry has been dealth with since GOF). Harry and Hermione argue also, but their arguments are based on bigger issues. They talk to each other not at each other and resolve their differences more efficiently. Even when angry they still see the other's point of view and are more apt to apologize for their behaviour. When have Ron and Hermione apologized to each other...at least not grudgingly.

Ok, I'm new here, so forgive me if I am doing this wrong. BTW, i'm a huge H/H shipper!

I personally think R/H has to happen first, so it can run its course, ya kno? But eventually, It will come out as H/H, because, as it has been said, Harry and Hermione just have that......thing that they have.

I really loved this essay, because it points out why R/H won't last (if it happens). They're just too different.

Hope that made sense.

*waves goodbye 4 now*

_weirdo

Hi mz. blu! I appreciate your feedback. I am sorry you feel I was trying to make Ron look bad. That was not the case. I was simply pointing out the inequality between Ron and Hermione. I enjoy Ron's character very much. I just don't think he will or should end up with Hermione.

Also, I enjoy debating very much. If you think I'm wrong, that is great. However, please try and respond with some sort of evidence or examples to back up your opinions. Prove to me that I am mistaken and I will be the first to agree with you.

You said:

yes harry has shown that he could do better if he tried harder, but isn't ron the same? When ron got the prefect badge, harry admits he is only better then ron at flying. Ron and harry are just as lazy as each other when it comes to work. There is also the fact that ron is good at chess, now i'm sure you know that to be good at chess you have to be a good strategist, so if ron can apply his knowledge with chess to the real world he could be more sharper in things. I'm not dissagreeing though that hermione and harry are more on the same footing, and their minds are definitly more in tune with each other. But ron and hermione wouldn't work, partly because hermione who shows more patience with harry would just nag ron all the time whih we know he doesn't like to do. Also harry can dominate hermione, something ron struggles with to even make her listen to hm
personally i don't think r/hr have a chance, they clash with everything to do with one another, except when it comes to harry.

Great points! Personally, though, like others, I don't think it matters if Harry and Hermione are more known around the school. I think that what matters more is their personalities and how each compliment the other. I don't know...Harry and Hermione just seem to be more in tune with each other, more comfortable with each other. They just have that kind of silent communication, like on the train in OOTP when Malfoy came in.

Hey there everybody! My, it's been a heck of a long time since the last time I could be seen lurking around the forum. But well, back to business.

I like your essay and definitely agree with many of your points. I think that in your eagerness to prove H/Hr, you overlooked a few things about Ron. For example, Ron is in no way unknown in the school. Though, a lot of his fame came from his earlier terrible games on the Quidditch team. Still, he has potential to better himself in the next two books.

About his intelligence level, I don't think he's as dumb as I've heard some people say he is. But, it's true that his level of trying are not great. On the other hand, intellectual levels aren't the only ones on which one can connect.

None of my past boyfriends for example have been as studious as I am (one was way more studious and the rest quite lacking). I have never considered that a base for a relationship. Still on the other hand, a similar thought process is a different thing.

I think you've mainly got some good points and overall the essay was a good addition for support of H/Hr.

athena

Hi everyone! I just would like to stress one more time that I'm not saying Harry and Hermione should or are going to get together because they're smart and powerful. My point is that they are more or less equals and have a lot in common, and that is a significant factor in their chances of getting together.

Also, I don't think Ron is stupid at all. He's a bit clueless sometimes. And he doesn't seem to take the next step very often; i.e. he doesn't always connect situations with comments and/or occurences (Riddle's diary, the "dogging" comment by Malfoy, etc.). But he's still pretty smart and shows suprising flashes of shrewdness. And I don't think Harry is judging himself quite objectively. We know he's better at DADA, and there's evidence that he's better at Charms. Divination is a joke. That leaves Transfiguration, Care of Magical Creatures, Herbology, and Astronomy. As far as I can tell, Ron and Harry seem about equal on those. Though, if I remember correctly, Ron multiplied a plate into a flock of flamingoes or something on his Transfiguration OWL, while Harry did a little better.

And I do understand about the chess thing. I happen to be a pretty good player myself; I was lead chair on a state championship team in my high school days and won all my matches, beating several of the better players in Massachusetts. My crowning achievement was stalemating my coach, who was a grandmaster

J K Rowling was asked about a possible Neville/Luna relationship rumor I believe and when she responded on her site she said that it wouldn't happen because she saw them as two completely different kinds of people. Hermione and Ron are two completely different kinds of people. Harry and Hermione are on the same level in many ways.

One thing I think is very significant in Harry and Hermione's relationship is that they have shared so much without Ron. Saving Sirius for example, why did J K Rowling have Ron unable to go with them. It might have a deeper meaning. I don't think they could share so much and have so many things they've done together without it leading to them being the couple in the end. The only way I believe we would get a RHr ending is if Harry dies in the end. Harry and Hermione are just too connected in my opinion not to happen.

Wow. . . .Alot of great responces to this essay. I pretty much agree that Ron and Harry are equal in terms of laziness when it comes to doing classwork though I think that is changing with Harry since in OOTP, Harry was wanting to do better in class so he wouldn't disappoint Hermione. I think Ron could be quite powerful and smart if he actually applied himself which is why I think Hermione nags both Harry and Ron so much cause she knows they are capable of doing better.

Anyways, on why I think H/Hr are more equal to each other than R/Hr, I think it is partly due to the fact that they are on more equal footing like others said. I think that Hermione does have a good deal of talent and intelligence but she also the determination to get the most out of those things. This enabled her to learn spells years away from her current year. This gives her a pretty varied arsenal to use in a fight where it makes up for the lack of physical strength and prowess that Harry has more of.

With Harry, he has shown considerable talent and smarts several times in learning spells and other things. He has shown that he can have difficulty learning some spells and he really just lacks the determination to make the most of it in normal situations. Though that seems to be changing some in OOTP so he won't disappoint Hermione.. It's in an emergency or if he is in trouble it is when Harry usually gets the determination to learn a spell. POA when he needed to learn the patronus charm to stop dementors from attacking him and in GOF where he learned the summoning charm to the point of summoning far away objects where before he was having difficulty learning it. I think in HBP, Harry will be taking his studies more seriously.

Finally on Ron but he has the same problem as Harry in that he lacks the determination to make the most of his talent and I assume his intelligence is at an equal level to Harry. Though he has shown to be pretty sharp on occasion and an excellent tactician from his skill in chess, I feel JKR really hasn't shown us what Ron can really do yet. I think she may have done this to give us the feeling of Ron as more of a normal boy in the wizarding world. I look forward to see what JKR does with Ron in HBP.

Chance, this is a fine essay, and I must agree that when it comes to an equal partnership, Harry and Hermione are certainly it. I'm reading the rest of the posts, and I hope to make a few comments tomorrow ... just wanted to welcome Squib6 to Portkey!

*Returns to Chance's essay and the other posts, her brow furrowed in concentration ...*

Mod Note: Removed the OT newbie welcome and pasted the greeting in Squib6's Newbie Thread. ~Jennifer/Hermione's Twin

Hey Guys! Yoll have great points. I just converted three of my Ron/Hemione shipper friends into Harry/Hermione shippers coz I showed them this page.

Thank you very much for that great and very insightful essay !
I enjoyed it very much and totally agree with you !
Keep up the good work !