JKR has recently released that a sercret about Liy's eyes with be released in HBP. This has been killing me since I heard the news. What is it?!? The only theories I have come up with were so stupid and piontless that they left my head quicker then they came. Does anyone have any ideas? Fully developed or not? I, as I assume many others like me, would love to hear it!

Much love,
Sugarhigh

P.S. Happy soon-to-be Valentines Day!

My ideas on this are probably less 'cosmic' than most.

While Harry looks a *lot* like James, he has Lily's eyes and eyes are 'windows to the soul'. More plainly stated, Harry and his mother are more alike in personality/soul/spirit than he's had opportunity to recognize yet. I think HBP is going to delve a bit more into who she was, and flesh her out both in Harry's mind and that of the reader.

I was thinking along the same lines as DianaHarringtonWinters.
I think the signifigance of Harry's eyes being like his mother's is more of a metaphor than a physical thing. Remember in the movie version of POA when Lupin tells Harry (paraphrasing) that Lily had a way of seeing the best in a person, even when that person couldn't see it for themselves....I've always thought that was a very important line. (Yes, yes, I know it's in the movie not the book, but the books hint at the same thing with Lily)
I believe that Harry is going to have to use love to save him from Voldemort. I believe that Hermione is going to play a key role in helping him to realize and develop this power, but I also believe that it is Lily's way of looking at the world, and her kindness that he has inherited, that he will have to employ to actually win.
So....Harry having his mother's (eyes) way of looking at people, is a really big deal, it's the key to his success and Voldemort's defeat.

I'm particularly reminded in this discussion of the end of PoA, where Harry stops Remus and Sirius from killing Peter.

1) Even knowing how horrible and personal Peter's crime was, Harry was willing to stop Sirius and Remus from becoming vigilantes. I can easily see Lily doing something similar - she was the only one to come to Snape's defense at all. None of Snape's Slytherin 'crowd', even, were willing to intervene.

2) Harry didn't want to just let Peter go either, however - he wanted Peter punished but through the ordinary legal channels. There have been other incidents where Harry has been unwilling to just look the other way. Similarly, despite her basic compassion Lily let there be consequences for wrong behavior - she turns down James for being a git, and stops defending Snape when he calls her by an extremely insulting, crude, essentially racial epithet. Some have criticized her for that, but I found it effective 'boundary-setting', as the psych term goes. "I'll help you, but you need to treat me with a modicum of respect in return."

merged with related topic - PK mods. Orig Topic Title:
Lily Evans: More than meets the eye?



Sorry, this is not necessarily related to h/hr, but it is something that has been bugging me ever since I heard that the connection between Harry and Lily both having the same eyes was important. In fact, when I heard that we were going to discover something important about Lily in the sixth book, I thought 'Thank god, I'm finally gonna know what the big deal is about the eyes.'

But this was to be, one of many disappointments, suffered at the hands of HBP.

However, after a friend said something to me in passing on a completely unrelated topic, it got me thinking about certain parts of the book, and I wondered if we had indeed been given an answer, and it was just hidden behind alot of smokescreen, as were many things in this book.

The first obvious connection between Lily and Harry, and perhaps the only physical connection is the fact that they noth have (startlingly) green eyes. But when you read more into it, you also find that many of Harry's personality traits come from Lily as well.

I can't think of any direct quotes at the moment, but Lily is described on several occasions as being kind, compassionate and very emphatic towards her fellow classmates (i.e. Lupin, Snape, etc.) Now to me, I think Harry has many of these traits.

This got me thinking. That it is obvious that Harry possesses qualities from both his parents, Lily's personality and James' physical characteristics (though there is some overlap,i.e in Lily's eyes and James' disregard of school rules, etc.).

Now the eyes are often described as being windows to the soul, and since Harry has been described as having his mother's eyes.....

Now for those who are reluctant to think this way, after recent developments with horcruxes, Voldemort's soul, etc. adding Lily's soul to the equation might create too much mess, and JK would probably aim not to go there, I have been pondering another possible explanation for the relevance of having Lily's eyes.



Now I don't know about you, but when I read this I got the clear distinction that Slughorn wanted to avoid eye-contact with Harry, and that Dumbledore wanted to make it very difficult for Slughorn to avoid just that.



Slughorn seems to know that Harry was brought there deliberately by Dumbledore to persuade him to teach at Hogwarts. But why would he think that? What special ability does Harry have that would get Slughorn to agree?

Perhaps his attachment to Lily would make him agree to come back simply to please her son. But I think there's more to it than that. Dumbledore uses Harry specifically to get information from Slughorn again, this time to find out about horcruxes.



Hermione even notices this.



So the question is, why does Dumbledore believe Harry has that much of an influence over Slughorn to be able to get the information from him, where others could not.

I remember that when the whol business of Lily's eyes being an important clue came up, another hint was given. That the fact that Lily's wand was good for charms was also important.

Slughorn describes Lily as being a "charming girl". Now to me, when I think of someone being charmed, what comes to mind is hypnotism. And the central focus of hypnotism is the eyes.

What I think is that Lily had the ability to charm people with her startling eyes, and that this talent was inadvertantly passed on to Harry.

If you read the extract where Harry is asking Slughorn for the memory, you will notice that they maintain eye-contact thoughout.



Now this scene seems very intense. You have Harry staring into Slughorn's eyes the whole time, leaning forward even, so that in the flickering light of the candle, that must be all that Slughorn can see. And with Harry whispering to him the whole time, it seems very much like some hypnotism may be going on.

Now, of course, all this is mere speculation. It could be that the reason Harry can influence Slughorn is simply because he had a soft spot for Lily and is reminded of her in Harry's eyes. But I'd like to think that there was more to it. It explains the whole 'wand good for charms' thing anyway.

It would help if anyone could find other scenes in which Harry stares at a person and they begin to act strangely, or he manages to get his way because of staring at someone and perhaps thinking hard about what he wants.

I have another theory about Lily and what possibly learned about her in HBP but I'll probably post that another time since this one turned out quite long.

Anway, thanks for reading and looking forward to feedback.

I think you may be onto something; it is certainly fascinating. I wonder if there are anymore examples if Harry doing this to other people and if Lily herself knew. Would Occlumency be able to block such an influence?

HI This is a very interesting theory. JKR has harped on Harry's eyes being the same as Lily's for 6 books, but never explained the connection. I think this is the best example I've ever seen of Harry really focusing on someone, staring them in the eye, like this -- and he gets the result he wants. HBP seems to have multiple themes going on, and while a major them is deception (self-deception and other-deception), a related theme seems to be using unorthodox means to get what you want (charms, potions, etc.) Hermione says that Harry has "never been more fanciable". Is it just Harry's looks, or is there something else going on with Harry?

I know there's a better way to phrase my second theme, above, but I can't think of it right now. Arrrgh. Anyway...interesting theory. Thanks for sharing. I look forward to seeing what others think about this.

I think you're onto something there.

The only question I have is if that's a magical ability, then why don't more people have it? And if it's not and just an instinct or something similar, why don't we see more people using it?

- Shady

Very interesting theory and I hope that in book 7 we'll be able to find exactly why he's eyes are green but in the mean time AWESOME theory

For some reason I'm finding myself not wanting to believe that Harry has hypnotic eyes--deep eyes yes, but hypnotic?? It is an interesting theory, and hey, it might play some role in the seventh book. Have to see what happens I guess. What do others think?

Very interesting theory. Bravo! Moving on to shadowofVoldemort's question... It could just be rare like parseltounge. We've only seen a handful of them and all but Harry were directly related to the others. Hmmm... JKR said that there was more to Petunia than meets the eye. I think that made more sense in my head than it does in written word

Yes, I think so too... I'm not totally following your line of thinking there... I lost you after you went on to what JKR said... what does that have to do with the problem at hand?

- Shady

My apologies. It was only half a thought really and has very little to do with the subject. However, if I remember correctly, I was following the thought of inheritence and the possibility that Petunia had this hypnosis thing also. There isn't any evidence to support that though, to my knowledge...like I said it made more sense in my head. Half thoughts will be the death of me.

It's okay... anyway... let me see what I can make of what you said...

It is possible, but knowing just a bit about genetics, you know that not everything would be inherited by all the children... so Petunia not having it wouldn't be proof of anything, especially considering that she is a muggle and therefore has no magical ability...

So, really, it doesn't much matter whether or not Petunia has it... IMO, it proves nothing...

- Shady

Quite an interesting theory, hello1989. I agree that you might be on to something, though if Lily is portrayed as such a nice, sweet girl, I can't see her using hypnosis to get what she wants. Although, she, and now Harry could be doing it subconsciously.

You just made me think of something...

what if Lily used that ability (consciously or not) to make people believe that she was nicer than she really was?

Whether or not that's plausible is up to other people to figure out... I just thought of that...

- Shady

This is a very interesting theory you have here, hello1989. I agree that there's something to Lily's eyes that we don't know yet. I agree with the fact that Lily has the ability to charm people with her eyes. However, I'm not sure I agree that her eyes hold some hypnosis power.

It is very possible, but I'm not sure I'd agree, at least not now that is. Some people just have that natural persuasive ability in them. I know a friend who's like that actually. If she's asking something and she stares at you, it's VERY hard to resist. So perhaps the whole "charming people with her startling eyes" is just a part of her personality that Harry happened to inherit.

There is a possibility though that JKR took this part of her personality to a whole new scale.... JKR's a very tricky author, so it's a possibility. And even though I'm not exactly keen on the hypnosis part of Lily's eyes, I may be convined one day.



It's a possibility, but I don't think I'd like to think of Lily that way. It WOULD make an interesting plot twist though...

Wait... this made me think of something. What did James find in Lily anyway that attracted him to her? Was it because of her beauty, smarts, or something else? From what we saw in Snape's memory in OotP, Lily was a nice person who defended Snape.

Maybe James found something... rebellious (dunno what term to use ) in Lily, hence the hypnosis thing with her eyes. Maybe subconsciously he felt that she wasn't all that nice?

Ok... this is just a half-thought, but I felt like saying it here. Sorry if I'm not making sense...

That is an interesting thought... I'll have to think about that and see what I come up with...

This is a very interesting subject...

- Shady

JKR has also said (sorry, I don't know exactly where the quote is) that Harry's eyes are very important in the overall story, especially the fact that he has "Lily's eyes". So it could be that not only does he have the same color and shape eyes as Lily, but he also has some magical ability related to eyes that Lily had. I'd bet that it's related to hypnosis or at least hypnotic suggestion. It certainly seemed, in the Slughorn's memory scene, that Harry was trying to project his thoughts and his desire for the memory into Sluggy's brain - and he succeeded.

Hypnotic suggestion seems to be the closest to what he has... He doesn't seem to be able to get total control over people, but rather can manipulate people slightly...

Seems to make sense to me...

- Shady

Hmm..this is a really interesting topic there hello1989. I never thought about that, but it really does make sense, and seems perfectly plausible.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense..

--Sabrina, generally confusing herself

Ok at first I didn't want to believe the suggestion of hypnotic powers in Lily's eyes. But now that I think about it more, it makes a lot of sense.

And I agree with shadowofVoldemort, I don't think he can take total control of people, but rather manipulate the person in question as to get what he wants.

Something just came to mind while thinking about all this. Is Slughorn the only person who's been affected by Harry's eyes? Maybe there are very subtle hints in the other books, but we haven't exactly noticed them till now. It's just a thought though...

I do recall Harry maintaining eye contact with Buckbeak everytime he approached, but that is it. Time to reread the books...

merged with similar topic - PK mods

I think I`ve figured out what is so significant about Lily`s green eyes.

I`ve seen lot of theories that goes about some special kind of magic that is linked with eyes, but that doesn`t make much sense to me. I`ve always thought that it is something else.

Then I noticed that JKR hinted in some interview that Harry may be the heir of Godric Gryffindor. So my theory is that Godric had green eyes and they are hint that Lily and Harry (and Petunia and Dudley) are from Gryffindor`s bloodline.

And guess what?Picture of Gryffindor was posted on JKR`s website today. And he indeed has green eyes.

Wow, nice theory and find! I was just watching Prisoner of Azkaban with my mum today and I said to her, "the books still haven't explained why it's so freaking important that Harry has Lily's green eyes". This is the first theory on this that has actually got my attention. Good work.

WOW. Nice find, Shob. I've always think that Harry may be Gryffindor's heir through the Potters but I never think, if it's true, it maybe on Lilly's side. Even though both her parents are muggles, they may still be descendants of GG.

Gryffindor's hair is red. Doesn't Lily has red hair, too? But, I'm not saying it's going to be H/G because of hair coloring. Please, just thinking about it makes me

Anyway, again, great job, Shob.

I think the eyes connection (Lily and Harry's) is for the benefit of Petunia.

I think thats why Harry has her eyes, so that Petunia is reminded of her sister. Just like Harry looking like James is the cause of Snapes hatred of him, so are the eyes of Lily for Petunia to CARE for him.

I just don't really see a deeper meaning behind his eyes unless it truly is to show some connection toward Godric, altho thats been a theory for YEARS, ever since book 2 came out.

Just one of my predictions. Harry's eyes are for Petunia and the connection she once had for her sister. Thats their importance, to remind her of what she lost the day she and Lily stopped talking.
im Nobody

I thought the same thing about the eyes when I saw his picture today.


Godric



Thought I'd just throw this up here.

Wow, he actually does have green eyes.

The discription says that he was a fighter against Muggle discrimination. Perhaps he ended up marrying a Muggle. It's been over a thousand(?) years since Hogwarts was founded. Somewhere along that time, perhaps one of his descendants had a child who turned out to be a squib, and that person had a child who was also non-magical and so forth and so on. Of course, they would have to live in the muggle word. At least I think they do. Filch is the only squib that I know of who lives in the magical world. Perhaps after living so long in the muggle world, the wizarding world just dismissed them. I mean lets face it, not a lot of wizards care too much about what goes on in the muggle world.
Perhaps this is one of the reasons why Lily's parents were so ecstatic that she turned out to be a witch. It sort of reversed their fortune in a way.

I thought JKR said that Harry wasn't the Heir of Gryffindor? Wouldn't that still be the case, even if Lily somehow was related?

(But it's really nice to finally see a picture of him, though. Awesome.)

Now Harry definitely has to end up with Hermione, or else the entire Muggle-born significance is diminished.

Lol. I just had to throw that in.

No. She said this:



She didn`t shot it down. Only the person who was interviewing her though so, because he or she didn`t realize that Lily`s parents doesn`t have to be magical.
As Potter's Otter explained it is very possible that Godric`s children were squibs and their children and grandchildern etc, muggles. It actually makes more sense that way, beacuse it makes Lily and Harry living proof that Slytherin`s and Voldermort`s theories about muggles are completely wrong.

Here is another quote from JKR (the one I was reffering to in my first post):


Anyways thanks to everybody who replied! I`m happy that you mostly agree with me. This has been my favourite theory for years and I was really happy yesterday when I saw that picture.

That's what I thought with the picture, too. It's weird, though, that I'm feeling a bit disappointed with this. I think it's because of all the fanfic I've read about Harry being the heir of Gryffindor and everything. I never really discounted the possibility--after all, Harry was able to wield Gryffindor's sword and everything, and it would be rather poetic to have the Heir of Gryffindor duking it out with the Heir of Slytherin. It also kind of shows that JKR laid a good foundation for this possibility, because we all saw it coming, but I was hoping for a cleverer twist, perhaps--though I have no idea how it could be cleverer than that.

Well, that's awesome, then. I've always liked the Heir theories.

I am, too. I would love for the heir of Gryffindor to turn out ot be completely random, like Hermione or something!

well...jk did say ginny would proove to be very powerful in the book....red hair, blue eyes... lol im just babbling, there are so many things to point that as wrong!

Wow, interesting points so far.
I certainly think the eyes and red hair is significant.

What interested me most reading this topic was the information on Harry's grandparents. I've never known what happened to them, thanks for posting that in there!

Actually Ginny has Brown eyes. We learned that in book 2 when she's peeking out her door at Harry as he walks by her room.

But I am leaning toward the idea that the Weasleys are related to Godric, they seem to hold up the same ideals he held up according to the WotM on Jk's site. I just don't think Harry would be an heir of any of the founders, I mean of course it's possible considering how long a time its been, but I think having Harry be just Harry Potter with no ties to any of those things would seem to relate better to what JK's been writing.

We'll find out in slightly more than 24 hours.

im Nobody