Lily may have been a death eater. It could be a possible reason why Voldie wanted to kill them. Maybe Lily and the dark wizard had a 'thing' going and then Jamie boy got in the way. She fell in love with him and left realizing what she had done was wrong. Possibility? Tell me what you think. Aya

Hmm, I'm not sure about ol' Lily partaking in the consumption of death (or Death Eater would have done just fine Angie).

I don't know, I guess anything is possible but call me a romantic for liking to think that Lily was sweeter than honey. I sort of idealize Lily as the perfect mom, perfect witch, perfect human being since ...I don't know, that's just how I see her.

If I had to vote on it, I'd say Lily was no death eater.

I'd have to agree with Angelina. (BTW, "partaking in the consumption of death " cracked me up) I just can't picture Lily doing that. I have her pictured at a goody-two-shoes (not that that's a bad thing. I happen to be one of those goody-two-shoes...with a streak of finding trouble ). Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I just can't see Head Girl/super smart Gryffindor Lily being in league with Voldie.

But anything could happen, so I'm not going to say anything is impossible in these stories!

I completely agree with Oy!Angelina and Starlight623. Like Angie, I picture Lily as unbelievably sweet and kind. The woman is dead, so it's not like there have to be plot twists hidden there, although there probably are.

Besides, I don't think it makes sense. "Stand aside, you foolish girl -" Are those the words Voldemort would use if he was going to spare someone who'd betrayed him? Hell, no. In fact, if she'd been a Death Eater he would have no qualms about pulling the wand on her as well, since she's all conveniently there and all.

There has to be a reason Voldemort either didn't think Lily was important or didn't want to kill her - and Lily being a former Death Eater doesn't work for me in either of those scenarios.

~Nell

He could have still had feelings for her! Just a thought. I mean that could be a whole reason why he TOLD her to stand aside, ya know? If he was all evilly and full of badness he really WOULDN't have told her to stand aside he'd have just killed her on spot. --Err, am I just not understanding? I'm thinking PARTLY as much. Aya

See I bet the "stand aside you foolish girl" comment had nothing to do with eww-tastic feelings Voldemort had for Lily.

I think that he thought she was so meaningless that it was just laughable to him that a muggle-born witch thought she could oppose the great Voldemort's will. (The guy is seriously trippy with his ego). I'm going on record in saying that Voldemort had to kill James and Harry because of something to do with James's family line. Smart Galleons probably will go with the Potters are probably blood relatives of the original Gryffindor and because Voldemort is the heir of Slytherin he'd need to off every last standing Potter. The British have this big deally about avenging through family lines and sins of the father all that stuff.

So since Lily is only a Potter by marriage it really doesn't matter if he kills her or not because he'll still have rid the world of the last Gryffindor with Harry and James. In fact, he probably only wanted to "spare" Lily so the poor Muggle-Born witch would have to live with knowing that her family was dead and there wasn't a thing she could do to stop it.

Voldemort's a petty sadist like that so that's what I think happened.

It could also be possible that Lily has a bloodline that is connected, in someway, to Salazar Slytherin (even though she is muggle born) - maybe that's why the Sorting Hat wanted to put Harry in Slytherin. Think about it - both Lily and Harry have green eyes; and greem is one of the two Slytherin Colours (the other being silver). I have a feeling that Harry could well be a double heir - an heir to Gryffindor from his father's side and an heir to Slytherin from his mum's; that's why Voldie wanted to kill him him when he was only a baby.

But Voldemort is the only living heir of Slytherin left. You'd think that being a heir, he'd know these things. While he might not kill Lily if she was related to him through Slytherin (which I don't think she was; she's a muggleborn) he wouldn't tell her to "stand aside" and call her a "foolish girl".

~Nell

QUOTE

While he might not kill Lily if she was related to him through Slytherin (which I don't think she was; she's a muggleborn)

Okay, I can understand that you're reluctant to believe that Muggle born Lily Evans has descended from one of Salazar Slytherin's bloodlines; it is, nonetheless, a possibility that cannot be discounted.

This is how it could work:

What if Salazar Slytherin had (say) two children - A and B; it is possible that Tom has descended from the bloodline A; while Lily, and therefore, Harry have descended from the bloodline of child B.

It is also possible that somewhere down child B's bloodline, a squib was born. Wouldn't this be a shame to the Slytherin Family? It is possible that the child was either:

1) given up for adoption to some Muggle couple and grew up like a Muggle; but the Muggle parents, at some stage, spoke to the adopted squib, about his or her original Wizarding family or,

2) grew up in the Wizarding world but turned to the Muggle world when he or she was old enough to (due to mistreatment by the Magical members of Slytherin's Family)

At some point in time, this squib child, living like a Muggle might have thought to himself or herself - "wouldn't it be great to have wizarding offspring?" and even though none came, the family's secret could have been passed on through generations - all of whom grew up the Muggle way.

Then, one fine day, the Muggle Evans family with the tainted bloodline to Salazar Slytherin suddenly had a magical baby (with red hair and green eyes) called Lily (mother of our hero Harry) - wouldn't Lily's parent's reaction be exactly as Petunia summed up in Philosopher's Stone - "But for my mother and father ... they were proud of having a witch in the family" - when they found out that Lily was a witch!

Also wouldn't Petunia hate Lily for this as she, Petunia, is, after all, a Muggle? It is at least possible, isn't it ?


Now I doubt that the proud Wizarding family of Salazar Slytherin would have felt the need to keep in touch or have any records of Salazar's Squib descendent and his Muggle family, so all contact with this family would have been lost or broken. Would Tom Riddle know anything about this? Very unlikely - certainly not from published information on Salazar Slyherin, but it may have been possible to have "deduced" this from Lily's and Harry's eyes.

Now, this is partally from canon and partially speculation, but this is how I think it goes:

Salazar Slytherin has two gifts (that some of his male heirs may posess):

1) Parseltongue (that's why the symbol of Slytherin House is a serpent) and
2) Some unknown gift which is even rarer and has got something to do with green eyes (why is one of the colours of Slytherin House, green?)

I am also willing to speculate that while females may carry these powers, it is dormant in them.

Only one of their male offspring will have one or both these powers, which is why Tom has Parseltongue (which is so rare that Only SS, Tom and Harry have them) while Harry alone has the green eyes! If Tom had the green eyes, Harry would have noticed them from the memories of Tom Riddle, down in the Chamber of Secrets!

However, thanks (or perhaps not) to Voldemort, Harry now has Parseltongue too (but Albus Dumbledore could well be mistaken, because he tells Harry that unless he, Albus, is mistaken Voldemort gave Harry the power of Parseltongue). What if Albus Dumbledore is mistaken, eh? What if Harry inherited both gifts from his mum? (who, while carrying the gift, couldn't display it because it was dormant in her)

I feel that Albus suspects that Harry an heir of Slytherin, thanks to Lily and Harry's green eyes, but can't 100% prove it, and so doesn't tell Harry (why traumatize the boy, needlessly).

I suspect that Tom guesses it because of Lily's green eyes (or maybe Wormtail told him, having overheard it from Dumbledore or Sirius - he was a spy for Voldemort who was close to the Potters) and wants to kill Harry because of it and because of the fact that Harry may be some sort of a superwizard (being an heir of Griffindor from James side and being an heir of Slytherin from Lily's side).

I suspect thatJames is an heir of Gryffindor and that's why Tom Killed him.

I feel that Tom wanted to spare Lily because
1) Lily is a Slytherin
2) Lily is female (*Voldemort feels that they are useless as they are the weaker sex and doesnt care much about them -Why else does he have only 1 female Death Eater in his inner circle? Why else do the Slytherin have an all male member Quidditch team? This also may be why females only have these powers in a dormant state - this may be a Slytherin thing) and
3) While Lily holds those powers, they are dormant in her and are unlikely to come out in another child of hers again.

However, these are precisely the reasons as to why he would want to kill Baby Harry:
1) The Heir Of Slytherin and Gryffindor combined.
2) Parseltongue.
2) The green eyes and they power that they possess.
4) He's male and is thus very dangerous to Voldemort.

Here may be some canon evidence backing the fact that somewhere down Lily's bloodline there is wizarding blood.

Harry was so close to the mirror now that his nose was nearly touching that of his reflection.
'Mum', he whispered. 'Dad?'
They just looked at him, smiling. And slowly, Harry looked into the faces of other people in the mirror and saw other pairs of green eyes like his, other hoses like this, even a little old man who looked as though he had Harry's knobbly knees - Harry was looking at his family, for the first time in his life.

At this point let's focus on one thing - "saw other pairs of green eyes like his" - this is an EVANS' trait, NOT a Potter one, so those particular people Harry was seeing in the mirror were Evans', NOT Potters!

Note that he does not see either Petunia or Dudley or Grandma and Grandpa Evans in the mirror (surely Petunia and Dudley have pictures of them at Privet Drive? surely Harry has seen those pictures?).

So it seems that the mirror is only showing him his magical relatives; which happen to include a few witches and wizards from hismother's Muggle bloodline - how odd?

Thus muggle-born Lily must have some Magical blood in her? Perhaps this could be a link between Harry, Lily and the Slytherins!


Be that as it may, only one definite conclusion can be reached - Lily has some wizarding blood in her bloodline - and to me that says a lot!

Okay, I want to beat your ass TheReader because now I'm THINKING YOU'RE RIGHT!

Agh! It does make sense. JKR has said on more than one occasion that Harry's green eyes will be of some significance. Tom Riddle was said to have Green eyes as well so maybe Harry is some Slytherin/Gryffindor hybrid. I mean, being the heir to on of the Hogwarts founders let alone TWO would be a very impressive offspring. Maybe Lily is related to Slytherin but as for your scenario:

QUOTE

What if Salazar Slytherin had (say) two children - A and B; it is possible that Tom has descended from the bloodline A; while Lily, and therefore, Harry have descended from the bloodline of child B. It is also possible that somewhere down child B's bloodline, a squib was born. Wouldn't this be a shame to the Slytherin Family?

Yes, such a squib would be a shameful product of the Slytherin line but if it's parents were so cold blooded as to give up a child for something like that then they probably would be cold blooded enough to off the kid altogether. I mean if you well hell bent on keeping up the family honor would you want some pathetic example running around with a claim to everythng Slytherin made for himself. I don't think someone like Tom Riddle would and I have to wonder how far the snake has slithered from the nest as far as his family is concerned.

Well I'm going on record saying that Lily's parents (or someone in her family) was a Squib which might not make her technically a Muggle-born. I'm not sure how classification goes though since a child born of two wizards (with a lot of witches and Wizards in their ancestry) is pureblood and a Muggle-borns a Muggle-born but no one seems to have a problem with half-blood like Harry or Seamus (at least that they've mentioned)

Anyway, I'm still mad at you for making me think you're right. Bad you,

Oy! Angie

Wow, that is an interesting theory. When I read that first post, I thought, "No, no, that doesn't make sense ..." but now I can see where it's possible.

And I really want to say "Well, it's possible, but it's not likely," only the more I think about it, the more I think it is somewhat likely. I mean, supposedly something big is going to be revealed about Lily in OotP. What if that's it?

And the green eyes thing is an excellent point.

Wow.

Okay.

I think you might be right, thereader.

DUDE...thereader, you are SO right ive always thought that....ALWAYS...everyone at skool thinks im crazy...i swear thats it....why Harry and Tom Riddle look soooooooooooo alike, the have the same characteristics, and just rereadin the parts were Riddle is described...hes neva described as anything other than a tall raven haired boy so that doesn't mean he naturally doesnt have green eyes, JK doesnt touch that subject...and it also (my theory-wise) a unkown fact of the whereabouts of Riddle after Hogwarts, and before His Terror Era(for lack of betta words)

Voldemort is in the area of the age 70-71ish so hed have been born in around 1925ish?
he got outta hogwartswhen he was lets say 18
he was defeated in 1981 so in book years that was about 14 years agoish
im pretty sure they sya he created havoc for about a decade so lets day 12 yrs to be on the safe side
so if oyu do the math thats around 25 yrs unacounted for

how are we to know that he didnt have any "sexual relations" i mean men are men...what woulda happended if a one night stand had ended up pregnant w/o his knowing?and that the woman died during childbirththe child could have been sent to an orphanige and bcome adopted by a family called Evans. because lily and petunina apperantly have no similararies

the trouble with the sorting hat coulda been cause harrys the heir to slythern and Gyffindor (and i Am a firm beliver in Harry being a TRUE gryffindor)
the hat states that Harry would be led to greatness if put in Slytherin...maybe because of a Dictinct similatiry between him and riddle (as Olivander said Voldemort did " great things, terrible yes, but great")

Omg all this thinking is giving me a headache, adn i dont kno if it even makes any sense, if it doesnt Please set me strait.

Yuri

Wow...thereader, you bring up some EXCELLENT points. I'm just a tiny bit disinclined to agree with you on the eyes bit though; I mean, if we say James is Gryffindor's heir did he have bright gold or red eyes? (Kinda creepy...)

YuriMionePotter, though - first off, these are kid's books. JKR most likely isn't going to put anything in about a one-night stand of old Riddle's. And I've always been under the impression that Petunia ONLY has done what she's done for Harry because of filial ties...but hey, who knows.

I've always just thought that Harry got a bit of Slytherin characteristics on the Big Green Explosion night...

~Nell

yea i forget that there childrens books but dont mind me crazy rantings of a HP cukoo person STILL whereing her tericloth Visor(brand new) at 11:16 at night ...hehe..i still swear their related someway

Oy! Angelina:

QUOTE

Well I'm going on record saying that Lily's parents (or someone in her family) was a Squib which might not make her technically a Muggle-born. I'm not sure how classification goes though since a child born of two wizards (with a lot of witches and Wizards in their ancestry) is pureblood and a Muggle-borns a Muggle-born but no one seems to have a problem with half-blood like Harry or Seamus (at least that they've mentioned

Let's talk about Seamus, Tom and Harry first:

1) Both Tom Riddle and Seamus Finnigan are Half-bloods because their fathers are MUGGLES and their mothers are WITCHES (okay, in Tom's case, were).

2) Harry's father is probably from an old pureblood family, but we KNOW FOR CERTAIN that Lily IS a Mudblood - that's a witch with Muggle Parents but Lily IS a witch (Muggle born, but she is a witch, nonetheless).

So how can one classify Harry in the same league as one classifies Seamus and Tom - ONE of their respective parents IS A MUGGLE and the OTHER one IS A WITCH, so it's a half-and-half situation; thus, they're half-bloods. Whereas, BOTH Harry's parents are Wizards (Lily MAY be Muggle born, but she IS a witch) - yet, Harry's still classified as a half-blood - shouldn't he be a classified as three-quarter-blood or something?


The point, I guess, I'm trying to make, here, is that we don't know the precise rules that govern a Wizard or Witch's blood status (when it comes to magical people having a mixed blood line).

Let's get back to Harry and his blood-line. Harry's a half-blood, because of Lily.
If he marries Hermione, who is a Muggle born; how will their children be classified? Quarter-bloods (because Harry is a half-blood and Hermione is a Mudblood) or will they be half-bloods too?
An even more interesting question is; How will Harry's children be classified if he marries Ginny?
Harry's a half-blood, yet Ginny's a pure-blood. So, would their children be 3 quarter-blood? or would they still be half-blood? See the irony in this!
The next logical questions to be asked are:
1) How many pureblood spouses must the descendents of Harry and Ginny have to get married to, to bring back the pure-blood status?
2) How many pureblood spouses must the descendents of Harry and Hermione have to get married to in order to get back pure-blood status?
Or is it possible at all, in this case. After James' pure bloodline has been tainted by Lily (who is a mudblood) and will further tainted by his half-blooded son, Harry, by marrying another mudblood - Hermione.


All this amply illustrates that the whole blood status thing is rediculous - and I'm pretty sure that's Joanne Rowling's intention!


Now let's examine how the status thing applies to Squibs and Muggles:

A Muggle is someone with no-magical powers who is born to other muggles.

A Squib is someone with no-magical powers who is born to parents who are wizards (or whose 1 parent is at least a Wizard?).

Ever wonder what would happen if 2 squibs got married and produced a mon-magical person?

Would this non-magical person be a Squib or would he or she be a Muggle? (after all, his or her parents aren't Wizards).

Even more interesting; how does one classify a Magical child born of parents who are Squibs? Is he or she a Mudblood? What if the magical child's 4 grand-parents were purebloods - how does that particular classification go, then?

It would thus seem that this whole classification thing's a mess!


Applying this to Lily and her blood status:

Now let us suppose that this Slytherin squib (that we have been discussing) married a Muggle, got a Muggle child and this child married another Muggle, also got a Muggle child and this happened quite a few times until a Witch (in this case, Lily) was born.

Technically, yes, Lily might have some magical blood in her bloodline, but she is nonetheless a muggle born since the Squib's bloodline has been diluted by generations of Muggles contributing their blood in Lily's bloodline. Don't forget that there's a thousand years between Salazar Slytherin and Lily. and this squib could have been born anytime during this period. Remember the further back this squib was born (from Lily), the more Muggle Lily's bloodline gets, so yes, there could be so much Muggle blood in Lily's bloodline, that the wizarding blood does not matter as far as classification is concerned, but she, by the bloodline, would still be connected to Salazar Slytherin - and that's the beauty of the whole darn thing!



As an aside, let me say this - IF this is what DOES take place in CANON and Harry finds out that through his beloved mother, Lily, he's also Slytherin's heir; he's going to be totally devastated by it! Even more interesting is going to be Ron and Ginny's take on the situation! Hermione and Hagrid will comfort him as they know what it is like to be outcasts, but what the rest of the Gryffindors do?


(I'll answer your other query in my next post)

Oy! Angelina:

QUOTE

Yes, such a squib would be a shameful product of the Slytherin line but if it's parents were so cold blooded as to give up a child for something like that then they probably would be cold blooded enough to off the kid altogether. I mean if you well hell bent on keeping up the family honor would you want some pathetic example running around with a claim to everythng Slytherin made for himself. I don't think someone like Tom Riddle would and I have to wonder how far the snake has slithered from the nest as far as his family is concerned.

The problem is that nearly 1000 years have passed between Salazar Slytherin and Lily Evans Potter. We don't know EXACTLY WHEN this Squib WAS born - simply that he was born sometime in between SS and LEP

Now I will agree that the Slytherin's would have killed this SQUIB OFFSPRING of theirs, BUT ONLY if they could have GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT!

What we don't know is the situation at the time:

How liked or disliked this Slytherin family was ?
How much political influence did they weild?
When/how did they find out that this child was a squib?
How well known this child was among the general population (before the Slytherin family found out that he or she was a squib)?
Did they have links with the Ministry of Magic or was the political power controlled by the Gryffindors at the time?
What was the Minister of Magic like at that time - was he or she like Fudge or was he or she more action oriented?
What was the punishment for killing a Squib or Muggle at that time?
Whether the Law Enforcement lax or was it vigilant at the time?

Tthe parents of this Squib could probably gotten away with killing the squib or they would have been up to their noses in Aurors and would probably have been caught and thrown into Azkaban - depending on the environment and the factors mentioned above - there's no two ways about this!

I assumed that being Slytherins, they accessed the situation and found thatit would not be possible for them to kill their Squib child, as it would land them in deep sh*t!

So they either:

1) gave the baby/child up for adoption or
2) treated the squib slightly better than a slave to encourage him or her had to leave when he or she was old enough

This would have saved their (Slytherin) butts from being thrown into Azkaban or from the kissy kiss-kiss of a darling Dementor - if the Law Enforcement was strict and justice was speedy at the time! Slytherin's are NOT known for they bravery, they are sly and cunning and would have done anything which would have benefitted them in the long run!

QUOTE

Wow...thereader, you bring up some EXCELLENT points. I'm just a tiny bit disinclined to agree with you on the eyes bit though; I mean, if we say James is Gryffindor's heir did he have bright gold or red eyes? (Kinda creepy...)

No, the Green eyes and the magical gifts that they contain are strictly a trait which is passed through to a few select Slytherin heirs (namely the individuals that Harry saw in the Mirror and Harry and Lily (though it, I suspect is dormant in Lily and the other Witches in Slytherin's bloodline).

Gryffindor's gifts have nothing to do with the eyes - I assume that among the gifts passed on to Gryffindor's heirs, is a talent with the broom, a keen sense of vision (the ability to spot tiny things from a distance). Also a resistance to the Imperius Curse. There may be other things that we don't know about yet! I also believe that the Phoenix is a gift that has been passed on from Gryffindor through to his various heirs. Yes I do believe that Albus Dumbledore is a Gryffindor Heir through one bloodline and James/Harry is the other through another bloodline. I believe at some point in time, Voldemort wiped out all the other Slytherin and Griffindor Heirs except Harry and Albus Dumbledore, so it is up to Albus to train Harry and see that he turns into the most powerful wizard since Albus himself.

Don't you think basing Harry as the heir of Slytherin because of his eyes is kind of stupid? After all, Voldemort has RED eyes. Does that mean he's the heir of Gryffindor? Gryffindor colors are red and gold. Eyes are just eyes. If Harry really was the descendant of Slytherin, wouldn't Voldemort want Harry to team up with him or something? Or just, why would he want to kill him for being descended from the same man as him?

Ashes
true the ancestry CANT be based on eyes COMPLETLY
and a reason why IF Harry is an Heir of Slythern why owuld good ol' Voldie want him dead? simple comptetion? Trelawny DID have ONe other tru prophecy
in her life whos to say that it wasnt that the heir of Slythern would be all powerful or want not (not tryin to pedict what the prediction is mind you) but that is a possibility that Voldemort could have been threatend by his own Kin....or he doesnt kno

But if Harry's a Slytherin from Lily, why didn't Voldemort want to kill Lily as well? And didn't Voldemort (or Dumbledore, I forget which) say that Tom Marvolo Riddle was the last remaining descendant of Salazar Slytherin [or something like that]?

it could be that only Male heirs becoe powerful or what not

and no it does not EXACTLY say that he is the LAST desendent of Slythern
and even if it did (which to the extent of my knowlege it doesnt) he could be that last KNOWn desendent


Yuri

These point are amazingly thought out! Someone earlier asked why Voldie would want to kill Harry if he was a Slythering heir, and I think it is because, being both Gryffindor and Slytherin's heir, Harry would be a great deal more powerful than Voldemort, therefore, he would want to kill his potential rival. I think this pretty much sums up the prophecy in Book 5, although it gives a bigger explanation

QUOTE

Don't you think basing Harry as the heir of Slytherin because of his eyes is kind of stupid?

No, I don't think it's stupid - only someone like you would; Harry's eyes are genetically inherited from his mum; somewhere down the line there could be a connection to Salazar Slytherin - this is a theory, after all!

QUOTE

After all, Voldemort has RED eyes. Does that mean he's the heir of Gryffindor? Gryffindor colors are red and gold. Eyes are just eyes.

Right - your sooo right; sorry, my mistake! Unless I read the books wrongly (as you apparently have); Lord Voldemort lost his original physical body when he first tried to kill Harry and the attempt failed - so we don't quite know what the colour of his original eyes are, now, do we? And I doubt they're red or Harry or the narrator would have noticed!

The new body that Voldemort's got is a manufactured body, manufactured by the Dark Arts - so whether he's got blue, black, red or yellow eyes make no difference at all! There's no genetic material in that body linking him to Salazar Slytherin or Godric Gryffindor or even to yourself, Ashes!

it's not neccessarily stupid, it's just not backed up by a lot. eye colour shouldn't interperate everything in the books, though it may well do so. there have been far too many references to harry's eyes to say they aren't going to play an important part.

QUOTE

What if Salazar Slytherin had (say) two children - A and B; it is possible that Tom has descended from the bloodline A; while Lily, and therefore, Harry have descended from the bloodline of child B.

Harry can't related to Voldemort in any way, because then he'd be a descendant of Slytherin. In book two CoS, Dumbledore clearly states that the line of Slytherin, fully traced and everything, ended with Voldemort. If Lily was somehow a descendant of Slytherin then the line wouldn't have ended, but it would still be traced. Though I do believe Harry and Voldemort are related not by blood, but by a strong magical bond. We all know that when Voldemort tried to kill Harry, he gave the baby some of himself. He gave Harry his powers, his strengths, his weaknesses, his wisdom, his life. That made the two appear so similiar to one another in looks and abilities, but it doesn't mean that they are related by blood.

My guess is that Voldemort was only interested in Harry. He kiled James, because he was in the way and attempting to stand up again the wizard. He kileld Lily, because she wouldn't step aside. He wanted Harry because of what he'd heard.

QUOTE

If Lily was somehow a descendant of Slytherin then the line wouldn't have ended, but it would still be traced.

Not necessarily - not if that connection was through a Squib which would have been an embarassment to Slytherin's family.

I can't help thinking that JKR has some more tricks up her sleeve.

QUOTE

Not necessarily - not if that connection was through a Squib which would have been an embarassment to Slytherin's family.

This, I find, is merely plucking at straws, but here it goes:

The Slytherin family would quite obviously have disowned such a member, but they would still have the blood etc.

QUOTE (thereader @ Jul 8 2003, 08:11 PM)

Right - your sooo right; sorry, my mistake! Unless I read the books wrongly (as you apparently have); Lord Voldemort lost his original physical body when he first tried to kill Harry and the attempt failed - so we don't quite know what the colour of his original eyes are, now, do we? And I doubt they're red or Harry or the narrator would have noticed!

actually, we do know what Tom Riddle looked like because of CoS. It said that Harry and Riddle looked alike, in the fact that they both had black hair and green eyes.

The clue might lie in Mark Evans - it will be interesting to see which house he is put in and whether or not he has green eyes!

I love the theories made here. I've always thought there was more to Lily than meets the eye. I mean we have one encounter in OotP were she defends snape, to tell us what she's like. James had descriptions of him told to Harry by Sirius and Lupin. Harry also has had things like the map of the school, and found out about the sheriking shack's real purpose, James’s legacy so to speak. The Snape's pensitive scene in OotP. They all tell about James. Harry knows next to nothing about Lily, I can't help but think there's a reason to all this.
The fact that the can't be traced is not a problem to this theory. I mean in Grimond Place the tapestry shows it was not unusual to kick someone out of the family. Why should this be an exception? Also Sirius says all most all the purebloods are related to one another so a child could be the descendant of both Gryffindor and Slytherin. If the Blacks and the Weasley’s are related, there must be other relations to everyone. Also I had always thought that the fact Harry and Riddle look alike is more than a fluke; they must have some relation to each other. Voldamorts mom WAS a pureblood and in OotP we learn that all the pure family's have connections to each other so others must be very distantly related to Voldamorts mother and so Voldamort himself why not the person who is way back in Lily's family the person who she inherits her magic abilities from. If that person was closely related, Harry could have a lot of Slytheren in him, the same goes for Gryffindor he could also have a close relative who has Gryffindor in him. So that’s how Harry can have both s. So you see it IS possible that Harry and Riddle are related and that it IS possible Harry has both Slytherin and Gryffindor in him and that it IS possible lily is related to Slythirin or even Gryffindor.

I hope that made sense.

I really don't think that Lily was a death eater. Here are my reasons:
1) She was in the Order.
2) If you remember the prophecy, it said that Voldie had to kill Harry or a boy born around his birthday, so he could regain power. Lily wouldn't give up her baby unless she died trying!
3) If Lily was a death eater, wouldn't there be more clues leading up to it??
4) In the books she struck me as being tooo nice to be a death eater!
Though that last theory is a little stretch, Look at the other Death Eaters!! They are soo mean! Like almost Pure evil!

I have a theory that Lily is Vodemorts ggrand daughter or something..thats why he didnt wanna kill her..

Put me down for 'Harry and Voldemort/Tom are not related'. Yes, Harry does have certain traits in common with Voldemort but I believe they are there for a few reasons.

1. As has been mentioned before, Dumbledore seems to believe that Harry became a Parselmouth when Voldemort attacked him as a baby. Therefore, he acquired the ability - he wasn't born to it.

2. Drawing certain parallels in looks and upbringing between the two both heightens the sense that 'there but for the grace of God goes Harry' - he spends a portion of CoS wondering if he is in fact related to Slytherin and has unwittingly been doing something horrible - and simultaneously emphasizes the fact that he HAS made different choices.

3. Lily's green eyes could be significant for any number of reasons totally unrelated to her bloodline - for all we know, James had a serious thing for girls with green eyes, and that's part of why he fell in love with her.

4. Almost everything about Harry recalls James... his hair, his flying ability, build, height, etc.... Giving Harry eyes just like his mom's reminds us that he did, in fact, have two parents.

I think, and this is my opinion obviously, that perhaps the reason Voldemort considered letting Lily live is that she was 'only a Mudblood' - therefore not a threat to His Supreme Badness (yep, serious ego issues, that one) - and what could be a worse torture for a wife and mom than to have her husband and child killed while she's there, unable to stop it? But then she had to get all stubborn... and thank Merlin she did!

I'd like to jump in and summarize my two cents here.

1. The first thing that was being debated was that Harry and Tom Riddle looked so much alike that they must be related, mostly with the eyes. (a paraphrase)

It has been pointed out that Harry's looks come from his FATHER. Except his green eyes which have been pointed out time and again as his MOTHER's eyes.
The fact that Tom was a thin raven-haired boy with situations similar to Harry's was a wonderful parallel that JKR chose to show one of the major themes in COS and, the whole series.
Our choices matter more than what we are born into.
There is no such thing as purity of blood.
These themes have been hammered home time and time again throughout the series, most recently with Percy's defection in OoP, they're obviously important.

That is one of the major reasons I disagree and violently oppose any supposition that the Evans family are Squibs in disguise as Muggles. It takes away from that message.

Now, is it a possibility? Of course. This is a magical world we're talking about. Most anything is possible. Especially as its fiction.

But, what would be the point of saying that there is no difference between muggle-borns and purebloods, if you're going to surprise everyone by saying, well, I was joking. Everyone that has talent and abilities really are pureblood. The muggle-borns are just purebloods in disguise.

One of the wonderful things about this theme in the book is that it shows children/people that even if you're born into a situation that you don't like, you can make choices to overcome it. You're not destined to follow in your ancestors' footsteps if you desire something different. Life is based on choices not on chance.
(barring any philosophical discussions about life, I accede the point that chance is a part of life. But only a part. I think choice plays a larger role.)

Why, after this has been set up, and re-enforced in EVERY book, why would the author suddenly undermine the whole thing?

Now as far as the whole Lily related to Slytherin thing. That is a distinct possibility. However, that doesn't mean that anyone threw anyone out. Probably a whole slew of the children in the story, Muggle or not, are related somehow. Remember that they lived over a thousand years ago. That's a LOT of chances for intermarriage and dilution of bloodlines. I'd be willing to bet that every kid running around the halls of Hogwarts has blood from the lines of ALL FOUR founders running through their veins.

Lets say that Salazar did manage to keep his bloodlines intact. Only Slytherins were allowed to participate in marriage with each other. Any child that was sorted into a different house was immediately outcast, or killed. That would still mean that the bloodlines have been diluted since then, because we know that even in the Black family (certainly a distinct possibility, knowing their background, that they are good candidates of Slytherin descendants) they've thrown people out, and intermarried within other houses, other bloodlines, just within the last TWO generations.
While these outcasts wouldn't be HEIRS to the Slytherin (or Black) line anymore, they would still be DESCENDED from them.

If we remember that descendant and heir are NOT necessarily the same thing, it could be theorized that EVERY child alive has descended from Salazar, and it wouldn't make one iota of difference to the story-line.

For that matter the whole descendancy could be coming from solely James' side of the family. After all, if we're going based on looks alone, James resembles Tom Riddle more than does Lily. Harry looks exactly like James. Thin, raven haired, talented, sound like Tom to you? Yes.

As we don't even know for sure that Tom's eyes are green....Lily doesn't hold a candle to the resemblance that James and Tom share.

Also, we need to remember Neville. He is similar in looks to Harry as well. And he was the other candidate for the prophecy. Are the Potter's related to the Longbottoms? When Sirius said that every pure-blood family was related to each other, he pretty much put this issue to rest. Did Voldemort know what he was choosing? And could Voldemort possibly know the blood-lines better than Dumbledore? Did it even matter, or was it just another prejudiced assumption on people's part? Dumbledore told Harry....he [Voldemort] chose the half-blood, not the pure-blood. Someone who was more like him. It most likely had NOTHING TO DO with blood-lines at all.

Does that make them Death-Eaters, or evil? NO. Remember Choices over what we are BORN.

2. The whole mirror issue.
I think the key thing here to keep in mind is that the mirror does not show TRUTH. It shows DESIRE. We know from Harry's feelings that he wants a big family like the Weasleys. We know that he desires a loving one. We know that he desires to see a family when he looks into the mirror.

Also, thereader you're going on some pretty shaky assumptions in regards to the mirror here. You say that green eyes is an Evans trait, and not a Potter one. How do you know? We have yet to see any Potter, except for James, and his eyes were hazel....not a far throw from green.
It has been hammered into us that Harry has Lily's eyes, but along with the color JKR specifically mentions shape as well. Maybe for differentiation?
There are probably Potters with green eyes, and Evans' with eyes a different color. Petunia is an Evans as well. And her eyes are NOT green. Neither are Dudley's.

I also don't think its an incredible assumption to make that he DOESN'T want to see the Dursley's who, though they are family by blood, have never treated HIM like family.

This mirror shows Harry's desires. Not the truth.
Whether or not those people are really even related to him is difficult to say. Also, I would like to say quote X-files here...."A lie is most convincingly told between two truths."
The mirror sensed his desire. Its sole purpose is to show people that desire. While those desires, have the possibility of coming true, they also have the possibility of being lies.
Harry's family was a lie. He will never be able to have those people truly around him (as long as he's alive) so the mirror was lying to him by showing him surrounded by them. (Even if he dies now and is surrounded by them, he is not the same age, nor in the same place, so it all boils down to a falsehood)
The mirror has to make the lie convincing so that Harry will see it, and believe it. If you don't believe your desire, the mirror isn't showing the true desire now is it?
Harry would never believe the Dursley's being happy to see him, surrounding him lovingly and waving at him.
The mirror leaves them out. The mirror inserts Harry's parents. Harry already knows vaguely how they look because Hagrid told him.
So did all the Evans/Potters have green eyes, because they were born with them, or because Harry desired it?

Another thing to keep in mind is that this is Dumbledore's mirror. Did he enchant it to show the desires? Or did he merely acquire it that way? We don't know. Mistakes or not, Dumbledore KNEW what James and Lily looked like. Did he have something to do with the mirror's visions? We don't know.
We DO know he was there, invisible, and watching when Harry discovered, and returned to the mirror. He watched to see what Harry would do with this discovery, and intervened when he saw it was hurting Harry, more than helping.
Did Dumbledore purposely give Harry a family to cling to in the difficult times ahead once he'd found out that the Dursley's weren't being a family to Harry?
Would Dumbledore have included the Dursley's in this vision if that was his purpose? I don't think so.

Dumbledore has been raising Harry with one purpose in mind. Like him or not for it, his sole purpose in regards to Harry is to ready him for the battle.

Ooooo, I never though of it this way. But there's another possiblilty- could Lily be adopted, yet never knew about it? Maybe Petunia knew that Lily was adopted, but couldn't say anything, so that's why she hated her so much. Ah, all of the possiblities!

Hi..............................

I think it could be.... Maybe. Possibly

I see me Lily/Snape action though.

Hm.......... Good plot line is popping into my head must go type out story

merging this with an older thread. ~gal-texter

okay for one it seems that harry's eyes have been refrenced to way too may times to ignore the fact that- yes!, they are ,quite infact, important and will be useful to him.... but there is always the lingering question is lily really a mudblood or having of some wizarding blood in her. now of course james is a decendant of Gyrffindor b/c of the fact that harry could pull the sword out of the sorting hat. i belive that lily is a untraced decendant of Sylithern b/c it is most likely that she is b/c harry has green eyes and is a parseltounge he might not be a parceltounge b/c of Voldie's scar but, in fact b/c of his decendance from slytherin.

another topic i thought of it might be a little off subj. but im saying anyway.

are all mudbloods really mudbloods?


try to awnser that,

ashleemac

Q: Are all Muddblood are really Muddbloods

A: Err....yes.

Hey your theory about Lily being Slytherin...does make sense. I have a question through what does

b/c-mean (I'm a blonde sorry)

Jenn